Man shoots, kills teen who was robbing him - Page 4 - XDTalk Forums - Your HS2000/SA-XD Information Source!

Zinji · 07-11-2006, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beakersloco

Its sad that nowadays the Bad guys have more rights then the honest citizens.

Yep and in NC you cannot shoot unless you are threated and you can not shoot to protect property.

One more reason why I love Texas.

Whittey · 07-11-2006, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big kitchens

If the story we read is correct then the shooter is guilty. I don't believe in killing a man over theft.

That's why the law sucks. That kid had the expectation that he was robbing a law abiding man who would not shoot him. If the law said he had the right to shoot, it was the punk thief that made the decision to risk his life.

-=Whittey=-

**Majk** · 07-11-2006, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whittey

That's why the law sucks. That kid had the expectation that he was robbing a law abiding man who would not shoot him. If the law said he had the right to shoot, it was the punk thief that made the decision to risk his life.

-=Whittey=-

Bingo.... Well put. If the law stated he could be shot, then he might have thought twice. Now today it's open season to rob people in NC, attention all robbers, you cannot be shot so go ahead and rob away.

They should just put up signs it's illegal to shoot people that commit robbery, so that way those illiterate robbers know it's ok to steal more.

Jettubby · 07-11-2006, 10:47 AM

So much for the nay-sayers regarding a one shot, one kill from a .38!

Where the heck was the father when he was stealing? The father can come forward and say his son didn't deserve to die like what he was doing wasn't that bad. In some parts of the world they'd cut off your hand for that; or worse. Like someone said before, a brazen kid comes up right in front of you to steal your money. You don't know what he's willing to do and you have to assume the worst. Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

Wu Wei · 07-11-2006, 12:15 PM

I just got a handout from a class that explains the law in Wisconsin. I think most of our defense laws suck, i.e. no CCW, no shooting for theft, etc. I do see an angle for possible defense though.
" In a US Supreme Court case objective resonableness was defined as being based on the severity of the crime, a person's reasonable perception of imminent jeopardy and actively threatening behavior." The older gent may have reasonably felt that bodily harm accompanies robbery. Lately around here things have gone to hell, with frequent group beatings to rob someone becoming the norm in the papers. Maybe the same is true of his area? He shot the larger, more physically fit individual in the chest, so the theif wasn't exactly running away..

Jettubby · 07-11-2006, 01:19 PM

With a good lawyers this guy could probably get cleared of the shooting. I remember our CCW instructor saying that if you ever shoot someone say something to the effect of, "I believed that my life was in danger"; stressing 'believe' as state law justifies the use of deadly force if you beleive you are about to be killed, seriously injured, raped, or kidnapped. You never know what the real story is with that kid. He may have come up to that old man and said, "Give me that box or I'll kill you". The boy at that point was the deadly weapon. If it's like most news reports, they only reveal about 25% of the real story and then 80% of that is incorrect.

bd · 07-11-2006, 03:00 PM

Where are you gonna draw the line at being able to kill someone over personal property?

Since we don't have this option, by law, in NC....can some of you guys in states that allow deadly force for protection of property tell us if there's some sort of guidelines?

How much cash value are you willing to lose before you take someone's life?

Are you going to pull the trigger on someone stealing your paper from your paperbox or what?

Have you already got a dollar value in mind?

"Hold on there buddy, let me see if you have enough of my stuff to meet the minimum for me to kill you......."

Do you think you're prepared to live the rest of your lives knowing you killed someone over a $300 stereo?

Is a $300 stereo worth the many thousands of dollars in legal fees?

It's something you need to think about before it happens - not in the heat of the moment.

Saddle up cowboys.

bd

Tard · 07-11-2006, 03:08 PM

If the shooter kept his mouth SHUT, he'll probably be OK.

DON'T TALK TO THE POLICE AFTER A SHOOTING!
NO MATTER WHAT THEY SAY!
GET A LAWYER, KEEP YOUR YAP SHUT!!!!!

ok, too many exclaimation points, I know.

rodan · 07-11-2006, 03:31 PM

as far as the dad of the kid goes, i am a father of three grown children and they have never been in any kind of trouble with the law and neither have i. raise your children in the admonition of the Lord, and when they are grown they will not depart from it.

dave_in_delaware · 07-11-2006, 05:21 PM

To respond to a recent post:

I don't put any value limit on what robbers can steal from me. I got my XD with the sole intention to protect myself and my family from bodily harm or death.

That said, I wouldn't kill anyone over any item of property (like the $300 stereo). If robbers are carrying stuff out of my house when I get home, I'm not drawing my gun unless one of them is going to obviously attack me, or is drawing their gun first. Then it's called self defense.

Part of the responsibility of a concealed carry permit, or just owning a firearm, is to have the brains inside your head enough to know when the use of DEADLY force is JUSTIFIED. And also to know when and how to determine whether a gun must be drawn in the first place (i.e. can you just walk away? or talk to the person?)...

Yeah, if someone directly threatens my life or my family, and I fear for my/their life, then you can be sure I'll be drawing my gun and stopping the threat. But you don't shoot someone just because they're a thief. You have no right to do that if your life isn't in danger. You might hold them at gunpoint, but you don't shoot them. And if they turn and run away, you have to let them go, or else we're talking murder and not self defense.

In this particular thread, we're talking about an edited article from the paper. I'm sure it has been written from the sympathy side of the victim's father. We don't really know the details, especially what the kid did to make the guy draw his gun at all.

07-11-2006, 10:47 AM	#34
Jettubby XDTalk 2K Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: "Blink...and you're mine!" Posts: 2,035	So much for the nay-sayers regarding a one shot, one kill from a .38! Where the heck was the father when he was stealing? The father can come forward and say his son didn't deserve to die like what he was doing wasn't that bad. In some parts of the world they'd cut off your hand for that; or worse. Like someone said before, a brazen kid comes up right in front of you to steal your money. You don't know what he's willing to do and you have to assume the worst. Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6. __________________ T "You can come along peacefully or you don't have to come along at all". - Sonny Crockett "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln And Jesus said, “He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one.” (Luke, 22:36) Last edited by Jettubby; 07-11-2006 at 10:53 AM.

07-11-2006, 12:15 PM	#35
Wu Wei XDTalk 500 Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 658	I just got a handout from a class that explains the law in Wisconsin. I think most of our defense laws suck, i.e. no CCW, no shooting for theft, etc. I do see an angle for possible defense though. " In a US Supreme Court case objective resonableness was defined as being based on the severity of the crime, a person's reasonable perception of imminent jeopardy and actively threatening behavior." The older gent may have reasonably felt that bodily harm accompanies robbery. Lately around here things have gone to hell, with frequent group beatings to rob someone becoming the norm in the papers. Maybe the same is true of his area? He shot the larger, more physically fit individual in the chest, so the theif wasn't exactly running away.. __________________ "Since when do lyrical skills have to do with killin' a cat? / What kind of chitlins is that?" -MF Doom Humans have always carried a projectile weapon, a blade, and fire. Who am I to discard my humanity?

07-11-2006, 01:19 PM	#36
Jettubby XDTalk 2K Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: "Blink...and you're mine!" Posts: 2,035	With a good lawyers this guy could probably get cleared of the shooting. I remember our CCW instructor saying that if you ever shoot someone say something to the effect of, "I believed that my life was in danger"; stressing 'believe' as state law justifies the use of deadly force if you beleive you are about to be killed, seriously injured, raped, or kidnapped. You never know what the real story is with that kid. He may have come up to that old man and said, "Give me that box or I'll kill you". The boy at that point was the deadly weapon. If it's like most news reports, they only reveal about 25% of the real story and then 80% of that is incorrect. __________________ T "You can come along peacefully or you don't have to come along at all". - Sonny Crockett "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln And Jesus said, “He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one.” (Luke, 22:36)

07-11-2006, 05:21 PM	#40
dave_in_delaware XDTalk 5K Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Wilmington, DE Posts: 6,158	To respond to a recent post: I don't put any value limit on what robbers can steal from me. I got my XD with the sole intention to protect myself and my family from bodily harm or death. That said, I wouldn't kill anyone over any item of property (like the $300 stereo). If robbers are carrying stuff out of my house when I get home, I'm not drawing my gun unless one of them is going to obviously attack me, or is drawing their gun first. Then it's called self defense. Part of the responsibility of a concealed carry permit, or just owning a firearm, is to have the brains inside your head enough to know when the use of DEADLY force is JUSTIFIED. And also to know when and how to determine whether a gun must be drawn in the first place (i.e. can you just walk away? or talk to the person?)... Yeah, if someone directly threatens my life or my family, and I fear for my/their life, then you can be sure I'll be drawing my gun and stopping the threat. But you don't shoot someone just because they're a thief. You have no right to do that if your life isn't in danger. You might hold them at gunpoint, but you don't shoot them. And if they turn and run away, you have to let them go, or else we're talking murder and not self defense. In this particular thread, we're talking about an edited article from the paper. I'm sure it has been written from the sympathy side of the victim's father. We don't really know the details, especially what the kid did to make the guy draw his gun at all. __________________ Dave Daily carry = XD-9 service in a Blackhawk CQC SERPA holster, a Spyderco Native, and a Streamlight Scorpion. "Everything matters... unless it's antimatter." “A person has the right to keep and bear arms for the defense of self, family, home and State, and for hunting and recreational use.” [Delaware Constitution, Article I, § 20 Right to keep and bear arms]

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07-11-2006, 03:00 PM	#37
bd XDTalk 3K Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,864	Where are you gonna draw the line at being able to kill someone over personal property? Since we don't have this option, by law, in NC....can some of you guys in states that allow deadly force for protection of property tell us if there's some sort of guidelines? How much cash value are you willing to lose before you take someone's life? Are you going to pull the trigger on someone stealing your paper from your paperbox or what? Have you already got a dollar value in mind? "Hold on there buddy, let me see if you have enough of my stuff to meet the minimum for me to kill you......." Do you think you're prepared to live the rest of your lives knowing you killed someone over a $300 stereo? Is a $300 stereo worth the many thousands of dollars in legal fees? It's something you need to think about before it happens - not in the heat of the moment. Saddle up cowboys. bd

07-11-2006, 03:08 PM	#38
Tard XDTalk 3K Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Machias, WA Posts: 3,852	If the shooter kept his mouth SHUT, he'll probably be OK. DON'T TALK TO THE POLICE AFTER A SHOOTING! NO MATTER WHAT THEY SAY! GET A LAWYER, KEEP YOUR YAP SHUT!!!!! ok, too many exclaimation points, I know.

07-11-2006, 03:31 PM	#39
rodan XDTalk Newbie Join Date: May 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 19	as far as the dad of the kid goes, i am a father of three grown children and they have never been in any kind of trouble with the law and neither have i. raise your children in the admonition of the Lord, and when they are grown they will not depart from it.