Man shoots, kills teen who was robbing him - Page 2 - XDTalk Forums - Your HS2000/SA-XD Information Source!

dave_in_delaware · 07-10-2006, 01:50 PM

Not very much detail to the report, but when people say "but he was unarmed" they forget to add "while commiting a felony." Just saying he was unarmed makes it sound like he's an innocent bystander, which he was NOT!

I dunno, maybe it's just me. But robbers shouldn't get sympathy just because they were unarmed. It's still against the law to steal things!

Did the kid deserve to die for his attempted robbery? No, not if the store owner wasn't justified to use lethal force (i.e. not in grave danger at the time).

without specific details, it's hard to say what each deserved/deserves.

Bad times for all involved.

tmahovlich · 07-10-2006, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercmar

Wouldn't happen to be the same D.A. involved in the Duke case, by any chance?

No, that jacka$$ is in a different county.

So Flo · 07-10-2006, 02:36 PM

Ronald Regan once said, "We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."

This seems to fit in this situation...the press noting he was unarmed but leaving out the fact he was committing a felony...sheesh!!!

rodan · 07-10-2006, 03:05 PM

65 year old man, young punk comes to rob him. old man doesn't know for sure if the kid has a gun or knife or what ever.. should he have waited to see if the kid was going to shoot or what ever? good guy alive.. bad guy dead..if new york tries this man for 1st, second, or third degree murder. citizens rites are in jeopardy. just another case of poor bad guy.. bad good guy......

**beardman2** · 07-10-2006, 05:12 PM

I agree. Not enough details to try this case.

as for the media coverage. I was reading about an article about israel in gaza and that they had killed something like 40 people. sounds terrible. Except the passing remark about even though they were all shooting at the Israelis they were civilians....so?

east_stingray · 07-10-2006, 05:36 PM

As John Locke said, if a man is to take me under his power in any way, to make me subject to his will, I must assume that he would also kill me.

cigarlover · 07-10-2006, 07:01 PM

Sad story, but where do we draw the line. I am a law abiding citizen. But if your over the age of 25- then you know the law doesn't protect us any more. Everything is geared toward the criminals rights to steal your stuff. And if you can't beat him in a fist fight then he gets to keep what was once yours. I don't agree with that. The life of a criminal, what is that worth ? Is is it worth more than ours ? I read an article recently from a war veteran and combat trainer for police and various agencies as well as private citizens. I quote " We don't shoot the people that need to be shot " When he said this he was refering to reaction of police officers as well as the armed citizen. He said in most police officer shootings where they died- The officer wouldn't pull his sidearm in fear of what would happen to him if he killed the bad guy. Im most incidents the bad guy had his gun out and the officer would tell him repeatedly to drop his/ her gun. The bad guy would then turn and kill the officer or civilian. I'm not saying what this stand owner did was wrong or right, I wasn't there. But I agree with what this guy said. If you feel strongly enough to pull your gun and go to work with it, Then worry about court later. atleast your still alive to go to trial !

CyberOtaku · 07-10-2006, 07:13 PM

Without knowing the exact details I obviously can't draw definative conclusions, but I can imagine the following reasons why the guy should be justified:

1) The kid was shot it the chest, so he likely was not trying to escape.
2) He probably had no way of knowing whether the kid was armed or not.
3) Considering the age difference, the store owner would likely be at a decided disadvantage should the kid become violent even if he is unarmed. One does not need to be armed to be dangerous.

While the father may have been right that the kid didn't deserve to die for his petty crime, getting shot was not a punishment, merely a consequence of the owner's intent to protect himself (assuming that was his motivation). Maybe the guy could have stopped him without firing, but at close range it is not a good idea to give your enemy the oportunity to disarm you.

cadejo69 · 07-10-2006, 07:17 PM

It looks like a big kid to me, big enought to cause some damage to an elderly man, for the looks of it the press has already decided that the 16 yr. old is the victim, and the merchant the bad guy...

one-eyed-fatman · 07-10-2006, 07:39 PM

That kid learned a valuable lesson. He'll never steal again.

07-10-2006, 01:50 PM	#11
dave_in_delaware XDTalk 5K Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Wilmington, DE Posts: 6,158	Not very much detail to the report, but when people say "but he was unarmed" they forget to add "while commiting a felony." Just saying he was unarmed makes it sound like he's an innocent bystander, which he was NOT! I dunno, maybe it's just me. But robbers shouldn't get sympathy just because they were unarmed. It's still against the law to steal things! Did the kid deserve to die for his attempted robbery? No, not if the store owner wasn't justified to use lethal force (i.e. not in grave danger at the time). without specific details, it's hard to say what each deserved/deserves. Bad times for all involved. __________________ Dave Daily carry = XD-9 service in a Blackhawk CQC SERPA holster, a Spyderco Native, and a Streamlight Scorpion. "Everything matters... unless it's antimatter." “A person has the right to keep and bear arms for the defense of self, family, home and State, and for hunting and recreational use.” [Delaware Constitution, Article I, § 20 Right to keep and bear arms]

07-10-2006, 02:36 PM	#13
So Flo XDTalk 10K Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Wellington, Florida Posts: 12,826	Ronald Regan once said, "We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions." This seems to fit in this situation...the press noting he was unarmed but leaving out the fact he was committing a felony...sheesh!!! __________________ No Guns, Know Crime. Know Guns, No Crime! http://militarysignatures.com/signatures/member3984.png

07-10-2006, 05:12 PM	#15
beardman2 XDTalk 4K Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 4,955	I agree. Not enough details to try this case. as for the media coverage. I was reading about an article about israel in gaza and that they had killed something like 40 people. sounds terrible. Except the passing remark about even though they were all shooting at the Israelis they were civilians....so? __________________ - He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from opposition; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach himself. ~Thomas Paine I will not be involved with the dreams of angry men. Founding Documents Freedom isn't free: http://www.anysoldier.com

07-10-2006, 05:36 PM	#16
east_stingray XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,285	as... As John Locke said, if a man is to take me under his power in any way, to make me subject to his will, I must assume that he would also kill me.

07-10-2006, 07:13 PM	#18
CyberOtaku XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Lancaster, PA Posts: 441	Without knowing the exact details I obviously can't draw definative conclusions, but I can imagine the following reasons why the guy should be justified: 1) The kid was shot it the chest, so he likely was not trying to escape. 2) He probably had no way of knowing whether the kid was armed or not. 3) Considering the age difference, the store owner would likely be at a decided disadvantage should the kid become violent even if he is unarmed. One does not need to be armed to be dangerous. While the father may have been right that the kid didn't deserve to die for his petty crime, getting shot was not a punishment, merely a consequence of the owner's intent to protect himself (assuming that was his motivation). Maybe the guy could have stopped him without firing, but at close range it is not a good idea to give your enemy the oportunity to disarm you. __________________ Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. - Hanlon's Razor Insofar as we believe in morality we pass sentence on existence. - Friedrich Nietzsche

07-10-2006, 03:05 PM	#14
rodan XDTalk Newbie Join Date: May 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 19	65 year old man, young punk comes to rob him. old man doesn't know for sure if the kid has a gun or knife or what ever.. should he have waited to see if the kid was going to shoot or what ever? good guy alive.. bad guy dead..if new york tries this man for 1st, second, or third degree murder. citizens rites are in jeopardy. just another case of poor bad guy.. bad good guy......

07-10-2006, 07:01 PM	#17
cigarlover XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Birmingham, Al Posts: 176	Sad story, but where do we draw the line. I am a law abiding citizen. But if your over the age of 25- then you know the law doesn't protect us any more. Everything is geared toward the criminals rights to steal your stuff. And if you can't beat him in a fist fight then he gets to keep what was once yours. I don't agree with that. The life of a criminal, what is that worth ? Is is it worth more than ours ? I read an article recently from a war veteran and combat trainer for police and various agencies as well as private citizens. I quote " We don't shoot the people that need to be shot " When he said this he was refering to reaction of police officers as well as the armed citizen. He said in most police officer shootings where they died- The officer wouldn't pull his sidearm in fear of what would happen to him if he killed the bad guy. Im most incidents the bad guy had his gun out and the officer would tell him repeatedly to drop his/ her gun. The bad guy would then turn and kill the officer or civilian. I'm not saying what this stand owner did was wrong or right, I wasn't there. But I agree with what this guy said. If you feel strongly enough to pull your gun and go to work with it, Then worry about court later. atleast your still alive to go to trial !

07-10-2006, 07:17 PM	#19
cadejo69 XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Fort Bragg, NC Posts: 236	It looks like a big kid to me, big enought to cause some damage to an elderly man, for the looks of it the press has already decided that the 16 yr. old is the victim, and the merchant the bad guy...

07-10-2006, 07:39 PM	#20
one-eyed-fatman XDTalk 10K Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 10,473	That kid learned a valuable lesson. He'll never steal again. __________________ http://home.houston.rr.com/gunpics/images/one%20eye.wav

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