Police running backround checks?

[cz75luver]

Originally Posted by CrAz3D

Don't need probable cause for all detainment. Terry Stops are detainments that lack PC and are totally fine. Reasonable suspicion is required (which is "reasonable and articulable facts").

If you're in public, probable cause seems to never apply. Reasonable suspicion is the standard. And looking shady in a shady area = RS.

From Cornell University Law School on Terry Stop:

A brief, non-intrusive, police stop of a suspect. The Fourth Amendment requires that the police have a reasonable suspicion that a crime has been, is being, or is about to be committed before stopping a suspect. If the police reasonably suspect the person is armed and dangerous, they may conduct a frisk, a quick pat-down of the person’s outer clothing. See Terry v Ohio, 392 US 1, (1967).

The first question a person should ask a LEO if they are being asked questions is "Am I being detained?". If no, the follow up question should be "Am I free to go?". On the other hand, if the answer is yes, they need to explain why, but the answer can be just about anything. The only piece I'm aware of that a person may be required to answer without legal counsel is their identity. Some states accept verbal answering of identity while others may require additional identification. To my knowledge, if a person is being detained and asked questions beyond who they are to establish identity, they have the right to have legal counsel present. Answering questions otherwise would be considered consensual.

[CrAz3D]

US supreme court case. it applies in all US jurisdictions and all US "stop and ID" laws.


"The principles of Terry permit a State to require a suspect to disclose his name in the course of a Terry stop. The reasonableness of a seizure under the Fourth Amendment is determined “by balancing its intrusion on the individual’s Fourth Amendment interests against its promotion of legitimate government interests.” Delaware v. Prouse, 440 U.S. 648, 654 (1979)."

Kennedy writes that the stop and ID laws basically equate to a Terry stop, which requires reasonable suspicion.

Thus, any "stop and ID" law in the US must require at least reasonable suspicion of a crime before the officer can require ID. This is not limited to Nevada.

Originally Posted by cz75luver

From Cornell University Law School on Terry Stop:



The first question a person should ask a LEO if they are being asked questions is "Am I being detained?". If no, the follow up question should be "Am I free to go?". On the other hand, if the answer is yes, they need to explain why, but the answer can be just about anything. The only piece I'm aware of that a person may be required to answer without legal counsel is their identity. Some states accept verbal answering of identity while others may require additional identification. To my knowledge, if a person is being detained and asked questions beyond who they are to establish identity, they have the right to have legal counsel present. Answering questions otherwise would be considered consensual.

custodial arrest kind of thing means Miranda warnings are required (failure to give isn't a constitutional violation in and of itself). Miranda warnings inform of rights. Right to counsel attaches at adversarial proceedings (e.g., arraignment, but not booking). Person can shut up whenever, and can waive/invoke rights whenever. Just stopping and chatting doesn't require miranda/counsel. Interrogation requires Miranda.

Grey areas suck

[yocan]

Originally Posted by dhgunit

Everytime I hear a story like this, I just want to meet the neighbor that calls the cops. Who are these lonely, angry-at-the-world people?

My friend has a neighbor that called the cops everytime he would play his guitar. We didn't extensive testing and found that it is 100% impossible to hear it if you are inside your house. Yes, you can hear it from the street.......but how much of a ********* can you be if you go get your mail and hear the slightest sound of rock and roll and call the cops?

In my neighborhood, I go outside and occasionally hear a neighbor playing drums. It doesn't bother me one bit. I can't hear it inside....so I don't get what the big deal is with some of these poopy people. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever to be such a whiny douche.

you might be half deaf btw from that rock and roll..

I had the cops called on me in excess of 30 times first year living off campus... but her 7 corgis would be out barking at 4 am was fine.... we'd have the cops called on us for someone not talking but sitting on the back porch smoking/texting. I was out back door swung open got asked how I wanted my steak, "medium rare" she called the cops.

I only know this because i'm friends with someone that works at the police department, they never dispatched anyone she called 30+ times a year for the last 5 years.

[Eremius]

Originally Posted by yocan

you might be half deaf btw from that rock and roll..

I had the cops called on me in excess of 30 times first year living off campus... but her 7 corgis would be out barking at 4 am was fine.... we'd have the cops called on us for someone not talking but sitting on the back porch smoking/texting. I was out back door swung open got asked how I wanted my steak, "medium rare" she called the cops.

I only know this because i'm friends with someone that works at the police department, they never dispatched anyone she called 30+ times a year for the last 5 years.

Ugh, I hate having crappy neighbors. I'm lucky that way right now.

[txpaladin]

Move out of that commie state.

[ptco911]

If the officers are responding to a shooting complaint and wants to run the serial numbers of the weapons, what is the problem?

[CrAz3D]

Originally Posted by ptco911

If the officers are responding to a shooting complaint and wants to run the serial numbers of the weapons, what is the problem?

they dont need to know.

complaint _maybe_ = excessive noise (unlikely out in the country, but who knows), which = reasonable suspicion for crime, which = identify.

But no suspicion of crime = cops can leave.

talking to cops is dangerous business

[dhgunit]

Originally Posted by ptco911

If the officers are responding to a shooting complaint and wants to run the serial numbers of the weapons, what is the problem?

It isn't illegal to shoot guns on your property. That is the problem.

Every time someone wants to go shooting you think the cops should be called and your guns checked?

[CrAz3D]

Originally Posted by dhgunit

It isn't illegal to shoot guns on your property. That is the problem.

Every time someone wants to go shooting you think the cops should be called and your guns checked?

well, sometimes it is...

[AwPhuch]

Originally Posted by CrAz3D

well, sometimes it is...

umm...where's the warrant?

Wow...are you FROM Texas man?