Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations

[dhgunit]

Originally Posted by Gildere_XD

*sigh* Here we go again.

Red- Pretend you're walking home through your neighborhood. You distinctly notice a car following you, and the driver looking at you. You then take action to evade him by moving off the side walk, only to then observe the driver following you on foot. You're honestly telling me you don't feel threatened at this point? I would, and I think you would too."

That isn't what happened. But whatever. Martin took off running while Zimmerman was in the car, had AMPLE opportunity to make it to safety without ever making contract with Zimmerman again, yet returned and tried to beat the living crap out of him.

Martin gets shot and I couldn't be happier with the outcome. Martin was destined for the federal pen anyways, saved us all some tax dollars. Unless you want to make the point that it is normal 17 year old behavior to carry around burglary tools with a ton of women's jewelry in your possession, carry marijuana paraphernalia to school, and spray paint graffiti at school.

[gsh341]

Originally Posted by Gildere_XD

Please explain why you are walking down a dark ally directly behind me.

Does it matter? You're walking down that alley and I am walking down that alley. It is a public alley and we both have the right to be there.

However, I'll indulge you.

Let's say I own a business and the back of my business is on that alley. I need to get to my bike that I chained to the drainpipe. You just happened to enter the alley first.

I get your point, but do you honestly have such a GD hard on for gun owners that you REFUSE to see why Martin felt threatened or intimidated by Zimmermans actions?

No, I understand why he might have felt threatened. HOWEVER, I cannot understand why any sane person would not try to get out of the situation by going to someplace safe just 400' away.

I also cannot understand how, given the two minutes that Zimmerman was on the phone with the police and the fact that Martin was clear and free to get to his house in those two minutes, he somehow only made it about 50'.

And I cannot understand how, given the two minute head start to get to safety, Martin somehow ended up in a physical confrontation with Zimmerman just seconds after he got off the phone with the police.

Everything about this says that Martin wanted and forced a confrontation on his terms.

How can you not see that?

[dhgunit]

Originally Posted by gsh341

Does it matter? You're walking down that alley and I am walking down that alley. It is a public alley and we both have the right to be there.

However, I'll indulge you.

Let's say I own a business and the back of my business is on that alley. I need to get to my bike that I chained to the drainpipe. You just happened to enter the alley first.



No, I understand why he might have felt threatened. HOWEVER, I cannot understand why any sane person would not try to get out of the situation by going to someplace safe just 400' away.

I also cannot understand how, given the two minutes that Zimmerman was on the phone with the police and the fact that Martin was clear and free to get to his house in those two minutes, he somehow only made it about 50'.

And I cannot understand how, given the two minute head start to get to safety, Martin somehow ended up in a physical confrontation with Zimmerman just seconds after he got off the phone with the police.

Everything about this says that Martin wanted and forced a confrontation on his terms.

How can you not see that?

Boom. Dead fricken spot on.

This is what I have been saying for months. Martin had EVERY chance in the world to make it nearly home before Zimmerman even stepped out of his truck, let alone ended the conversation with 911.

AND, if Martin was so damn threatened, why was he not on the phone with 911.

[gsh341]

Originally Posted by dhgunit

Boom. Dead fricken spot on.

This is what I have been saying for months. Martin had EVERY chance in the world to make it nearly home before Zimmerman even stepped out of his truck, let alone ended the conversation with 911.

AND, if Martin was so damn threatened, why was he not on the phone with 911.

Yup.

People often misunderstand the purpose of the "Stand Your Ground" law and it leads to a lot of dumb accusations.

Before "Stand Your Ground" laws, you had the legal obligation to attempt retreat before you could claim self-defense and had to prove that you could not.

The "Stand Your Ground" law removed that obligation and the required proof. It also typically removes any possibility of civil action against the person claiming self-defense.

On the other hand, in cases like this one where the facts are not as clear and the shooter has been charged, the prosecution has to prove the person was the aggressor and thus had no right of self-defense. If they can prove that the shooter is also subject to civil action.

Also, the law states that a person can go from being a defender to an aggressor if they don't break off the defense and continue the altercation after the initial aggressor tries to break contact. An example of this would be you chasing a robber out of your house and shooting him as he drove away.

With that said, can anyone prove that Zimmerman was the aggressor when Martin was shot?

There is an eyewitness that claims that Martin was on top of Zimmerman. If that is the case, Zimmerman had no possibility of escape and Martin did. Zimmerman also demonstrated he wanted the altercation to end by screaming for help.

If Martin chose not to break contact, then he became the aggressor regardless of who started the altercation.

[dhgunit]

Originally Posted by gsh341

With that said, can anyone prove that Zimmerman was the aggressor when Martin was shot?
.

Oh the law......quit bringing up the law. What does that have to do with anything?

[AwPhuch]

Originally Posted by Missileman

I know it is always hard to know what happened when one of the people cannot speak for themselves. That is why the police are required to investigate the case and insure that the physical evidence backs up the surviving persons story. The law has to have evidence other than the survivors word to exonerate also. The police in this case did not arrest GZ because there was a mountain of evidence backing his story. Many claim GZ started it. Unless GZ physically swung first it doesn't matter. He could have said anything he wanted to TM in anyway he wanted. It is the physical assault that establishes right or wrong in this case. I am sure if GZ had skinned knuckles the police would have looked closer. Absent any physical evidence to counter GZs story his account is the one that wins every time under Florida law.

Every thug killing another thug on the street always claim self defense. Rarely (if ever) do they get it. All you have to do is watch The First 48 on A&E. They have Miami in every episode and almost every suspect claims self defense. It never works. As much as people hate it, our police are not stupid. They aren't perfect and do make mistakes, but by and large they do their job and do it well. That's one of the reasons I have always leaned to siding with GZ. The police had basically already said there was not a case there. The rest has all been political posturing for some hidden agenda. They tried to railroad a minority man into being a white racist. This just smelled bad from the start.

Now we wait and see it how long for the Febreeze to kick in and make this case fade away. I know they say never waste an opportunity, but when you try to make one it really can come back to bite you.

Dead people can't speak..but as of late..FORENSIC SCIENCE is pretty dang good!

And it was ALL completely media and greed driven...those beating the drum were there ONLY for the money, it was NEVER about justice

[gsh341]

Originally Posted by AwPhuch

Dead people can't speak..but as of late..FORENSIC SCIENCE is pretty dang good!

And it was ALL completely media and greed driven...those beating the drum were there ONLY for the money, it was NEVER about justice

Agreed.

The only reason this case is an issue is because someone saw a benefit to making it an issue. Those people care nothing for Trayvon Martin other than what his death can do to further their cause or make them money.

[Rustynuts]

Originally Posted by dhgunit

And if Martin had stood his ground and Zimmerman had started beating him or pulled his gun on him, Martin would have had every right in the world to defend himself.

That is not how this story went.

How the eff do you know this?

The only one who had a right to attack the other was Zimmerman when Martin started beating the sh*t out of him.

Z could have EASILY brandished his weapon causing the whole incident. PROVE me wrong.

[AwPhuch]

Originally Posted by Rustynuts

Z could have EASILY brandished his weapon causing the whole incident. PROVE me wrong.

Sucking chest wounds usually slows down the beating of another about the head and shoulders

So..Z pulls gun...BLAM...M on the ground flopping...Z doesn't have his rear end kicked (as proved by forensic evidence)....DOH...your story just got turned into a gazebo

[dhgunit]

Originally Posted by Rustynuts

Z could have EASILY brandished his weapon causing the whole incident. PROVE me wrong.

So let me get this straight.

Z pulls out his gun and then a 17 year old rushes this armed man an tries to beat him to death. Am I the only one that thinks this doesn't sound very likely?