Jesus and self defense

[SmokedBMW]

I just signed up for my CCW class and talked to a few people at church about it on Sunday. Some were happy for me yet others did not approve. Obviously I will get my CCW and carry everywhere I can no matter what my peers think. But I'm just curious how other christian xdtalkers justify carrying. I found this great article on a certain passage most of you have probably heard or read:
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him bring it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22-36

This is the article:

Did Jesus advocate the use of a sword for self-defense purposes ( Luke 22:36-38 )?

Jesus is well known for His continued emphasis on love,forgiveness,and "turning the other cheek." It is therefore surprising to find Jesus advising the disciples to buy a sword in Luke 22:36: "But now if you have a purse,take it,and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword,sell your cloak and buy one." Did Jesus in this verse advocate the use of a sword for self-defense purposes?

This is an issue over which Christians have vehemently disagreed for many centuries. Following is a summary of the two basic views of how Christians have interpreted Jesus on this issue.

THE PATH OF NONRESISTANCE. Christian pacifists believe it is always wrong to injure other humans,no matter what the circumstances. And the same principles supporting pacifism carry over to nonresistance--the belief that any form of self-defense is wrong. This view is usually based on the exemplary life and teachings of Jesus Christ.

According to Christian pacifist John Yoder,Jesus rejected the existing political state of affairs and taught a form of radical nonviolence. Central to Christ's teaching,Yoder says,is His biblical mandate to "turn the other cheek" when encountering violence ( Matthew 5:38-48 ).

In Yoder's view,the way to victorious living is to refrain from the game of sociopolitical control. Jesus exposed the futility of the violence engrafted in the present world system by resisting its inclinations even to the point of death. Hence,Christians are to refuse the world's violent methods and follow their Savior to the cross (Matthew 26:47-52). When Jesus told the disciples to buy a sword (Luke 22:36),pacifists suggest He was only speaking figuratively.

"TURN THE OTHER CHEEK" ALWAYS? It is true that Jesus said to turn the other cheek in Matthew 5:38-42. However,many scholars do not believe pacifism (or nonresistance) is the essential point of His teaching in this passage. These scholars do not believe Jesus was teaching to "turn the other cheek" in virtually all circumstances. Even Christ did not literally turn the other cheek when smitten by a member of the Sanhedrin (see John 18:22-23).

The backdrop to this teaching is that the Jews considered it an insult to be hit in the face,much in the same way that we would interpret someone spitting in our face. Bible scholar R. C. Sproul comments: "What's interesting in the expression is that Jesus specifically mentions the right side of the face [Matthew 5:39]....If I hit you on your right cheek,the most normal way would be if I did it with the back of my right hand....To the best of our knowledge of the Hebrew language,that expression is a Jewish idiom that describes an insult, similar to the way challenges to duels in the days of King Arthur were made by a backhand slap to the right cheek of your opponent."

The principle taught in the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 5:38-42 would thus seem to be that Christians should not retaliate when insulted or slandered (see also Romans 12:17-21). Such insults do not threaten a Christian's personal safety. The question of rendering insult for insult,however,is a far cry from defending oneself against a mugger or a rapist.

In terms of following Christ's example,one must remember that His personal nonresistance at the cross was intertwined with His unique calling. He did not evade His arrest because it was God's will for Him to fulfill His prophetic role as the redemptive Lamb of God (Matthew 26:52-56). During His ministry,however,He refused to be arrested because God's timing for His death had not yet come (John 8:59). Thus,Christ's unique nonresistance during the Passion does not mandate against self-protection.

THE BIBLICAL CASE FOR SELF-DEFENSE. It is noteworthy that the Bible records many accounts of fighting and warfare. The providence of God in war is exemplified by His name YHWH Sabaoth ("The LORD of hosts"--Exodus 12:41). God is portrayed as the omnipotent Warrior-Leader of the Israelites. God,the LORD of hosts, raised up warriors among the Israelites called the shophetim (savior-deliverers). Samson,Deborah,Gideon, and others were anointed by the Spirit of God to conduct war. The New Testament commends Old Testament warriors for their military acts of faith (Hebrews 11:30-40). Moreover,it is significant that although given the opportunity to do so,none of the New Testament saints--nor even Jesus--are ever seen informing a military convert that he needed to resign from his line of work (Matthew 8:5-13; Luke 3:14).

Prior to His crucifixion,Jesus revealed to His disciples the future hostility they would face and encouraged them to sell their outer garments in order to buy a sword (Luke 22:36-38; cf. 2 Corinthians 11:26-27). Here the "sword" (Greek: maxairan) is a dagger or short sword that belonged to the Jewish traveler's equipment as protection against robbers and wild animals. A plain reading of the passage indicates that Jesus approved of self-defense.

Self-defense may actually result in one of the greatest examples of human love. Christ Himself said,"Greater love has no one than this,that he lay down his life for his friends" (John 15:14). When protecting one's family or neighbor,a Christian is unselfishly risking his or her life for the sake of others.

Theologians J. P. Moreland and Norman Geisler say that "to permit murder when one could have prevented it is morally wrong. To allow a rape when one could have hindered it is an evil. To watch an act of cruelty to children without trying to intervene is morally inexcusable. In brief,not resisting evil is an evil of omission, and an evil of omission can be just as evil as an evil of commission. Any man who refuses to protect his wife and children against a violent intruder fails them morally."

http://home.earthlink.net/~ronrhodes/qselfdefense.html

[SonOfOdin]

Bah. And humbug. Every christian sect has a different set of beliefs or interpretation that is changed to the slightest degree. Half of each does not even practice what they preach by any means. Take my old lady's grandpa for example. He claims to be a devout man of faith and goes to church at least twice a week. But in-between that he is very busy being a sheisty POS that never practices what he preaches. My last point is that in the material above it appears to be obvious that Jesus advocated self defense if it was needed, but not if it could be avoided humbly. But, most Christians cannot interpret the bible literally .

(disclaimer: I am only bashing those people who blindly follow a faith to feel like they are doing good, but they do not practice what they preach out of Sunday school. The least they could do was practice what they preach all the time instead of just at church.)

In my opinion OP, there is no real need to "justify" carrying. Its already justified. And no matter how you try to justify it, there will be a great many of those that carry the same faith as you saying your interpretation is wrong. So don't sweat it.

[N.E. Tx.XD]

I have never really stopped down to think about it ...but think your idealistically on the right track.

[Blacksamwell]

The bible is full of internal contradictions and passages that contradict reality. For every passage that might appear to support pacifism there are others that appear to support rape, murder, and pillaging.

How can a document so full of conflicting positions rationally be utilized to support any position?

[PacoJose]

Jesus had no issues with dispatching evil spirits who wanted to hurt innocent people:

"And immediately Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea and were choked in the sea."

- Mark 5:13

[BUZ124]

Originally Posted by SmokedBMW

But I'm just curious how other christian xdtalkers justify carrying.

How do I justify carrying?

It is a right to carry, not a privelege, given to me by my creator, not from men

It is my responsibility to protect myself and my family

[dhardy57]

A discussion of what the Bible has to say about guns - The Bible and Guns: http://gunowners.org/sk0801.htm

[Brickboy240]

Praise be to St. Gabriel Possenti.

Who?

The patron saint of handunnery....seriously.

www.possentisociety.com

- brickboy240

[rufireproof]

#1 Jesus said turn the other cheek. He did not say "If a man rapes your wife, give him your daughter too.
#2 Jesus gave this speech after Peter had cut off a man's ear with the sword he was carrying. The Bible does not mention anywhere else that Peter had a sword. This leaves two possibilities: a) This was the first time Peter had ever had a sword. It just so happened that the day he decided to "pack" was the day that Jesus was taken. b) Peter had been carrying the blade the whole time, and this was so normal and common that the bible did not think it worthy of mention. Presumably Jesus ate every day (with the exception of his fast), yet the Bible does not tell us what he had for breakfast. My theory points to b.

[Carnivorous]

Reliance on self leads away from reliance on God. Self-reliance is not Biblical.

Luke 22:35 expresses this perfectly:

35 Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?”
“Nothing,” they answered.

If we remember, when Christ sent out His disciples, He sent them out with NOTHING. They were wholly dependent on the Lord to provide for them. Mark 6:8:

8 These were his instructions: “Take nothing for the journey except a staff—no bread, no bag, no money in your belts.

Originally Posted by dhardy57

"When a strong man, fully armed, guards his palace, his possessions are safe." - Jesus Christ, Luke 11:21

The full saying:
21 “When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are safe. 22 But when someone stronger attacks and overpowers him, he takes away the armor in which the man trusted and divides up his plunder.


In other words, your possessions are only safe if you are the strongest man. The armor on which you rely can always be taken from you, but GOD can never be taken from you. Thus, rely on God.

Originally Posted by dhardy57

"...if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one" - Jesus Christ, Luke 22:36

The full passage:
36 He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. 37 It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’[b]; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.”
38 The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.”
“That’s enough!” he replied.

Twelve disciples, two swords. Hmmm.

Originally Posted by dhardy57

We believe that we are like sheep among wolves and we are to be wise as serpents. Matthew 10:16.
We believe that the sword was the choice weapon in the days of Christ and is equal to a firearm today.

Let's look at the Matthew passage. Here is the full text:

16 “I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. 17 Be on your guard; you will be handed over to the local councils and be flogged in the synagogues. 18 On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, 20 for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.
21 “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. 22 You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

So - did the disciples have weapons? No. Were they instructed to resist false arrest? No. Were they instructed to defend themselves? No. God told them to endure hardship, accept punishment, and flee from persecution.

Originally Posted by dhardy57

We believe Satan’s trap is to get people to believe “God will protect them”, so when He doesn’t, they become mad at God and lose their faith. Jeremiah 37:8-9.

This is an absolute distortion of the Bible. Not only does the cited text not support the proposition, but "Satan's trap is to get people to believe God will protect them"? Really? God DOES protect us. He may not protect our physical bodies, but He protects our soul. There is absolutely no guarantee that our physical bodies will be protected - ever - and in fact God promises that we will go through hardship, physical and otherwise, so that our response to the hardship will glorify Him ("every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit").