Jesus and self defense

[dhardy57]

Originally Posted by Carnivorous

(And to clarify, I DO believe everyone who carries a weapon is a sinner, because all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.).

At least we can agree on this, 'God hates the sin but loves the sinner....' "For God so loved [all of us sinners] that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.." - John 3:16 (Unless of course you think that is a distortion also....)

Originally Posted by Carnivorous

Yes, you are distorting this passage. Remember what Nehemiah was doing! He was organizing the Jews to rebuild the walls of Jerusalem. God put that charge on Nehemiah's heart, and defending the wall from Israel's enemies was part of God's plan to see His work succeed.... Analogizing that to self-defense is a stretch. Defending yourself is not necessarily the same as furthering God's plan. You can assume it is, sure, but that's not always accurate.

Must be their weapons were "...at their side while they worked..." for decoration then? Certainly not for self-defense....

As I said, in this great country, we don't all have to believe the same. But let me assure you, there is one who is gleeful when we fight about it. So, that being said - I'm done in this thread. Have a wonderful day!

[windsearcher]

am far from being a biblical scholar, but do think I am a good Christian. While I do not believe we have the right to go around judging others or breaking any of the 10 Commandments etc, nowhere that I can ever remember reading in the bible does it say that we are supposed to be victims.

I fully plan to exercise my right of self defense if/when necessary, and hope that when it is time to be judged by The Almighty, hope that I will have made the right decisions.

(I also really, REALLY hope that He/She grades on a curve!!)

[Carnivorous]

Originally Posted by dhardy57

At least we can agree on this, 'God hates the sin but loves the sinner....' "While we were still sinners he sent his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.." - John 3:16 (Unless of course you think that is a distortion also....)

We agree completely, my friend.

Originally Posted by dhardy57

A Have a wonderful day!

And you as well!

[Scouter19D]

Originally Posted by Blacksamwell

The bible is full of internal contradictions and passages that contradict reality. For every passage that might appear to support pacifism there are others that appear to support rape, murder, and pillaging.

How can a document so full of conflicting positions rationally be utilized to support any position?

If you find me one passage that "appears" to support rape or murder, I'll denounce my faith this instant. The Bible isn't a mere book, transcribed by a bunch of ignorant old people through history, full of personal thoughts, opinions, or least of all SIN. It's the Holy Word of THE God, and was written through divine inspiration, from those chosen only by God. It came from Him, it is Him, and it holds no such passages or contradictions. If this is a belief handed down from some parent or relative, I'd challenge you to do the leg-work yourself and find a single fault in the Bible. Good luck!

[dhardy57]

Originally Posted by Scouter19D

If you find me one passage that "appears" to support rape or murder, I'll denounce my faith this instant. The Bible isn't a mere book, transcribed by a bunch of ignorant old people through history, full of personal thoughts, opinions, or least of all SIN. It's the Holy Word of THE God, and was written through divine inspiration, from those chosen only by God. It came from Him, it is Him, and it holds no such passages or contradictions. If this is a belief handed down from some parent or relative, I'd challenge you to do the leg-work yourself and find a single fault in the Bible. Good luck!

[Scouter19D]

Back on topic, a new pastor came to our church around 18 months ago. To this day, I've yet to meet someone as spiritually grounded and biblical in all that he does. The conversation has come up before, with a church our size, that there's bound to be "disgruntled" people in the community that don't believe in, appreciate, or care for what goes on. And other who blame the church for their misfortunes in life. It's been agreed, and taken up by one of our deacons, to set up a plan of action for an emergency. This will cover medical, as well as physical emergencies to the congregation. Anything from a heart attack, to structural damage, to a man with a gun. There will be designated individuals to assess the situation, provide medical support, and physical security should an event such as this happen. There's a book on the subject, and I'm yet to read it, so I won't comment on it, other than to say this is not a new idea. Many churches, especially those with larger corporate worship centers, have instituted exactly this type of plan.

People have entered a church armed with the intent to do harm. No where in the Bible, as far as we can tell, does it say be a doormat to Satan and the evil that happens in the world. Is our first line of defense to pull a firearm and shoot an individual for a simple transgression? Of course not! That said, we are all called to not only honor the laws set forth by God, but by those He has appointed here on earth. This includes municipal laws, speed limits, obviously murder, etc. At the point the sheep are attacked, a true shepherd will step in to save the flock. We pray fervently this never happens, but look realistically to the fact that it could.

Now, if churches across America hold this ideal, why wouldn't the very Christians who attend these churches? If a man entered your home, and murdered your daughter or son in their sleep, would you lie in your bed and wait for him to make it to your room? If you're at the grocery late at night, and a predator sees an opportunity to do your family harm on the way to your car, are you going to step aside and say, "Have at it"? Of course not. God never calls you to do such a thing. Even as they came to arrest Christ, one of his followers struck out with a sword. Granted, Christ had him "sheath" his weapon. Not the time or the place in this instance to kill in the name of God. Nonetheless, they were packin' in the very presence of God. And time and time before, God used the sword to carry out His will.

I guess it's a personal call. Christians, being christians, are imperfect beings, just like everyone else. No one can agree on simple theological questions, let alone a hot topic like firearms, or alcohol. If you do some searching, God will let you know.

[BUZ124]

Originally Posted by Scouter19D

If you find me one passage that "appears" to support rape or murder, I'll denounce my faith this instant. The Bible isn't a mere book, transcribed by a bunch of ignorant old people through history, full of personal thoughts, opinions, or least of all SIN. It's the Holy Word of THE God, and was written through divine inspiration, from those chosen only by God. It came from Him, it is Him, and it holds no such passages or contradictions. If this is a belief handed down from some parent or relative, I'd challenge you to do the leg-work yourself and find a single fault in the Bible. Good luck!

Well said

LOL some people ya just have to ignore, they know not what they do to themselves

Mama says stupid is as stupid does

[rayikeo2]

Originally Posted by SmokedBMW

I just signed up for my CCW class and talked to a few people at church about it on Sunday. Some were happy for me yet others did not approve. Obviously I will get my CCW and carry everywhere I can no matter what my peers think. But I'm just curious how other christian xdtalkers justify carrying. I found this great article on a certain passage most of you have probably heard or read:
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him bring it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22-36

This is the article:
Self-defense?

Christ died 2011 years and 5 months ago. He has no influence on any of my decisions.

[Carnivorous]

Originally Posted by rayikeo2

Christ died 2011 years and 5 months ago. He has no influence on any of my decisions.

He rose again 3 days later though...

[Vhyrus]

OR we could simply use our brains and not try to use a horribly outdated and mistranslated book to justify our lifestyle choices. Crazy idea, I know.

btw, AD means Anno Domini, 'The year of our Lord' NOT After Death. If it were truly 'After Death' there would be a 30 year period with no labelled years.