XD Talk

Bonehead · 04-24-2012, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rustynuts

If M was sooo much bigger and scary, why did Z choose to follow?

to help facilitate police intervention.

prophetic_joe · 04-24-2012, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rustynuts

SAME GOES FOR Z!!!! He didn't know a THING about M. Whether he was carrying, an MMA fighter, with fellow gang member around the corner, etc. Z should have AVOIDED contact at ALL COSTS. No backup, knowing the police were just going to meet him at the gate, etc., nothing but him and his trusty Keltec.

Stupid.

We don't know that Z confronted anyone.

Confront
1.Meet (someone) face to face with hostile or argumentative intent.
He followed that is all we know. If he did confront though he knew he was not in a position of weakness, he was armed, he was at worst on equal footing. Martin however had no reason to believe that he was on equal footing because while he didn't know if Z was armed he sure as heck knew that he wasn't. If Martin did the confronting he did so from a weaker position gsh is saying he would not have ever done that in Martin's position.

**Rustynuts** · 04-24-2012, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonehead

to help facilitate police intervention.

Again, without a partner or close backup. Stupid.

**Rustynuts** · 04-24-2012, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prophetic_joe

We don't know that Z confronted anyone.

Confront
1.Meet (someone) face to face with hostile or argumentative intent.
He followed that is all we know. If he did confront though he knew he was not in a position of weakness, he was armed, he was at worst on equal footing. Martin however had no reason to believe that he was on equal footing because while he didn't know if Z was armed he sure as heck knew that he wasn't. If Martin did the confronting he did so from a weaker position gsh is saying he would not have ever done that in Martin's position.

WTF, where did I say CONFRONT?? I said avoid CONTACT at all costs. That include potential contact by chasing after M. Hence why Z may be innocent of the shooting, but he's still WRONG.

prophetic_joe · 04-24-2012, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rustynuts

WTF, where did I say CONFRONT?? I said avoid CONTACT at all costs. That include potential contact by chasing after M. Hence why Z may be innocent of the shooting, but he's still WRONG.

You quoted gsh who said "Martin CONFRONTED Zimmerman. He didn't know anything about Zimmerman or what Zimmerman was capable of or even if Zimmerman had a weapon. In that situation, the best thing to do is avoid contact and seek safety.

He didn't do that and we all know how smart that turned out to be."

Stating that was exactly what Z did. It is logical to deduce then that you are saying that Z confronted Martin without knowing what he is capable of. I argue that not only did he not confront that we know of but he at least knew if he did confront that they were on relatively equal footing. So no not exactly the same.

Edit: My mistake you said same goes for Z. Not that is exactly what Z did. I read your statement wrong.

Still I again disagree Martin knew he had no weapon but not if Z did. Z didn't know if Martin was armed but he did know that he was. Worst case scenario in his mind they were both armed and on relatively equal footing. Still not super smart but smarter than being completely blind.

**Rustynuts** · 04-24-2012, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prophetic_joe

You quoted gsh who said "Martin CONFRONTED Zimmerman. He didn't know anything about Zimmerman or what Zimmerman was capable of or even if Zimmerman had a weapon. In that situation, the best thing to do is avoid contact and seek safety.

He didn't do that and we all know how smart that turned out to be."

Stating that was exactly what Z did. It is logical to deduce then that you are saying that Z confronted Martin without knowing what he is capable of. I argue that not only did he not confront that we know of but he at least knew if he did confront that they were on relatively equal footing. So no not exactly the same.

Edit: My mistake you said same goes for Z. Not that is exactly what Z did. I read your statement wrong.

You missed the KEY point in all that. "In that situation, the best thing to do is avoid contact and seek safety. " So no, you are wrong again.

And again to state that Z did NOT confront is not a factual, proven, statement. Would everyone quit hiding behind that? It's pure speculation at this point.

prophetic_joe · 04-24-2012, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rustynuts

You missed the KEY point in all that. "In that situation, the best thing to do is avoid contact and seek safety. " So no, you are wrong again.

And again to state that Z did NOT confront is not a factual, proven, statement. Would everyone quit hiding behind that? It's pure speculation at this point.

I never once made the statement that Z's actions were correct. I don't believe them to be. I have only said that while getting out of the truck was not the best thing it was not really the point where this scenario tipped completely to violence. People seem to think that getting out of the truck started it all, that is a stupid belief. Getting out of the truck didn't help, but like others have said you may as well have said "He was wrong for getting out of bed". It makes just as much sense as really they contriduted pretty close to equally. Many other mistakes had to have been made after he got out of the truck in order for this to escalate as it did and most of those mistakes are ones you could have come back from. The straw that broke the back of this scenario is, was and always will be the moment the first punch was thrown, up until that point there are many ways that the situation could have turned around from ending in someones death.

As far as speculation is concerned getting out of his truck like I said did not tip it so we have to speculate. The only way him getting out of the truck was the turning point is if he got out with it in mind to attack Martin otherwise like I said there are many other paths that could have been taken to avoid death even after getting out of the truck.

**Rustynuts** · 04-24-2012, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prophetic_joe

I never once made the statement that Z's actions were correct. I don't believe them to be. I have only said that while getting out of the truck was not the best thing it was not really the point where this scenario tipped completely to violence. People seem to think that getting out of the truck started it all, that is a stupid belief. Getting out of the truck didn't help but like others have said you may as well have said "He was wrong for getting out of bed". It makes just as much sense as really they contriduted pretty close to equally. Many other mistakes had to have been made after he got out of the truck in order for this to escalate as it did and most of those mistakes are ones you could have come back from. The straw that broke the back of this scenario is, was and always will be the moment the first punch was thrown, up until that point there are many ways that the situation could have turned around from ending in someones death.

No getting out of the truck is the seminal event for what happened. THAT is the fateful decision (not waking up, get real

) that caused everything. During the call Z even says M notices him and is checking him out, worried about what's in his waistband and hands (like he may be armed!). So obviously Z knows he was not being stealthy about the "watch". Also begs the question of why he was so careless as to get jumped after all that when trying to walk back. Sheer idiocy.

Also here's a timeline of events. Shows there WAS NOT 40 minutes of lollygagging around as some have claimed. Appears to be a normal time of 30-mins to walk to/from the store.

Quote:

Around 6:40 p.m.: Trayvon Martin leaves the home of his father’s girlfriend. He walks to a nearby store and picks up some snacks.
Around 7:05 p.m.: Trayvon walks back from the store. He has a bag of Skittles and a container of iced tea. While walking, he takes calls on his cellphone from his girlfriend and his father’s girlfriend’s son.
7:11 p.m.: George Zimmerman calls 911 and tells the dispatcher a ”suspicious guy” in a ”dark hoodie” is ”just staring, looking at all the houses ... looks like he’s up to no good or he’s on drugs or something.”

AwPhuch · 04-24-2012, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rustynuts

No getting out of the truck is the seminal event for what happened. THAT is the fateful decision (not waking up, get real

) that caused everything. During the call Z even says M notices him and is checking him out, worried about what's in his waistband and hands (like he may be armed!). So obviously Z knows he was not being stealthy about the "watch". Also begs the question of why he was so careless as to get jumped after all that when trying to walk back. Sheer idiocy.

Also here's a timeline of events. Shows there WAS NOT 40 minutes of lollygagging around as some have claimed. Appears to be a normal time of 30-mins to walk to/from the store.

Wait...was not walking thru a neighborhood acting suspicious the seminal event that started it all??

You just won't let go of the shoulda coulda woulda thing will you?

**Rustynuts** · 04-24-2012, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AwPhuch

Wait...was not walking thru a neighborhood acting suspicious the seminal event that started it all??

You just won't let go of the shoulda coulda woulda thing will you?

Yes, in Z's feeble mind that was the seminal event. Thanks for helping. Yes, I will not let it go when everyone is glorifying an idiot.