New evidence in the Zimmerman case supports Zimmerman.

[cz75luver]

Originally Posted by gsh341

Following someone is not a crime. However, initiating a physical altercation is a misdemeanor (depending on how it is done) and attacking someone with intent to cause serious bodily harm or death is a felony.

So, as far as anyone has been able to prove, Zimmerman broke no laws and Martin committed a felony. For that, Zimmerman used lethal force to defend himself and Martin will never be able to commit a felony again.

Being that Martin had no prior criminal history of battery, aggravated battery, or battery of any type, under Florida law, he committed a misdemeanor. Throw in assault for the verbal part, but still a misdemeanor.

784.03 Battery; felony battery.—
(1)(a) The offense of battery occurs when a person:
1. Actually and intentionally touches or strikes another person against the will of the other; or
2. Intentionally causes bodily harm to another person.

(b) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person who commits battery commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

(2) A person who has one prior conviction for battery, aggravated battery, or felony battery and who commits any second or subsequent battery commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. For purposes of this subsection, “conviction” means a determination of guilt that is the result of a plea or a trial, regardless of whether adjudication is withheld or a plea of nolo contendere is entered.

[Gildere_XD]

Originally Posted by thh8d141

So allow me to pose a question.

You are walking back home, when a suspicious person is following you. You confront that suspicious person as to why they are following you. That person then makes a move to pull something out of a pocket. Do you consider that act to be a threat, and if so, how would you react. Would you wait and see what that person is going to pull out, or do you attempt to neutralize the threat?

Reason I ask, based on confirmed reports, Trayvon had confronted Zimmerman about why he was following him, Z reached to get his cell phone when Trayvon unleashed on him. Now I do not know where his phone was located at this point. If it wasn't in a pocket then it is a mute point, but assuming he had placed it in a pant pocket or belt clip as a large number of people do, then it could be a point of contention.

Blue- Yep, people don't follow you to say hi.

Red- I brandish my weapon, and announce my intentions. GTF away from me. If during the game of cat and mouse I catch them unaware, and I had seen their weapon or saw them reaching for one, I would initiate combat if I thought escape wasn't a viable option. I guess some people here think that means I deserve to to get shot.

Green- Valid point. Zimmerman may have had the phone on a belt clip on his side and was reaching for it. Trayvon may have thought he was reaching for a gun. He was/might have been right/wasn't far off.

[cz75luver]

Originally Posted by Fixxer

After all this, you STILL can't get that little detail right?

Stop helping.

But everything I do is for you.

[prophetic_joe]

Originally Posted by thh8d141

So allow me to pose a question.

You are walking back home, when a suspicious person is following you. You confront that suspicious person as to why they are following you. That person then makes a move to pull something out of a pocket. Do you consider that act to be a threat, and if so, how would you react. Would you wait and see what that person is going to pull out, or do you attempt to neutralize the threat?

Reason I ask, based on confirmed reports, Trayvon had confronted Zimmerman about why he was following him, Z reached to get his cell phone when Trayvon unleashed on him. Now I do not know where his phone was located at this point. If it wasn't in a pocket then it is a mute point, but assuming he had placed it in a pant pocket or belt clip as a large number of people do, then it could be a point of contention.

Confirmed reports? I have never seen this reported anywhere. AS far as I know we have witnesses before the shots stating that Martin was on top and Zimmerman was screaming, we have Martin's parents that say no the screaming was Martin's, we have additional witness that heard the shot and afterward saw Martin on the ground with Zimmerman standing up. Next we have Zimmerman's statement that he had given up following Martin because Martin ran and hid and was heading back to his truck, then he states Martin came from behind, confronted then attacked him. Now while this isn't fact we have the police report that there was evidence a fight did happen and that Zimmerman was on the receiving end of a beating. If there are confirmed reports somewhere that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation and made to pull something out of a pocket link it or copy it because I have seen no such report.

[thh8d141]

Originally Posted by gsh341

Since there were no witnesses to the start of the confrontation, I can only assume that you mean there are confirmed reports of wild guesses made by people that weren't there.

As to your direct question, if a person is following me, I would never confront them except from a position of strength. Open ground in the middle of the night is not a position of strength. However, from behind a locked door at my home IS a position of strength.

Had Martin been wise, he would have headed for home and the help that was there.

I am running off of memory here, but this is based on Zimmerman's words, confirmed by the police. Wish I could remember the article, just the content at this point. Hence why I'm not screaming up and down about a banshee about it.

As for Martin being wise is kind of a moot point, except he probably would've been alive. His wisedom isn't as strong point in the case, however.

If you are in a situation, and a suspicious person makes a move to a concealed part of his body, you're not going to stand there and hope he's got a candy bar. If these reports are true, then Trayvon's attack could be considered justified, which then places Zimmerman as the attacker, which changes a lawful action to an unlawful action.

I'll be curious as to when all of the evidence comes to light and we can make an informed decision. However my instinct (yes, I know, my instinct secures convictions in 50 states, DC, and PR ) tells me that his actions weren't as lawful as many wish to believe. Depending on the evidence, it may create a really dangerous precedent in future homicide investigations (you don't think a clever lawyer won't use it to get his gangbanger client out of a murder rap?).

[Gildere_XD]

Originally Posted by gsh341

Since there were no witnesses to the start of the confrontation, I can only assume that you mean there are confirmed reports of wild guesses made by people that weren't there.

As to your direct question, if a person is following me, I would never confront them except from a position of strength. Open ground in the middle of the night is not a position of strength. However, from behind a locked door at my home IS a position of strength.

Had Martin been wise, he would have headed for home and the help that was there.

I'm going to have to call shenanigans. I honestly don't think you mean this, and I think you're saying these words just to support your argument.
A- 7pm isn't the middle of the night. But anyways.
B- You'd NEVER stand your ground outside your home? Really? NEVER? Zero reasons, like maybe you have a gun and situations like this are the exact reason you carry it, or hey they're in a car and I'm on foot I might not win this race. You're just going to play that I'D NEVER DO WHAT THAT KID WOULD EVER DO card.

I'm assuming then, that you also never carry a weapon. Because according to you, you'd never use it.

[Fixxer]

Originally Posted by cz75luver

But everything I do is for you.

Even luving your gun? Make sure it's not loaded. Or don't.

Stop helping.

[prophetic_joe]

Originally Posted by Gildere_XD

Blue- Yep, people don't follow you to say hi.

Red- I brandish my weapon, and announce my intentions. GTF away from me. If during the game of cat and mouse I catch them unaware, and I had seen their weapon or saw them reaching for one, I would initiate combat if I thought escape wasn't a viable option. I guess some people here think that means I deserve to to get shot.

Green- Valid point. Zimmerman may have had the phone on a belt clip on his side and was reaching for it. Trayvon may have thought he was reaching for a gun. He was/might have been right/wasn't far off.

Red: We have no evidence so far that I know have that supports that Martin believed he had no escape. We do have Zimmerman's 911 call where he states that Martin ran and he didn't know where he was at. Seems from that Martin was hiding and should have then stayed put. If I am being followed and not carrying, I feel I need to run and hide, I stay hid and call the police I don't leave my hiding place and confront the man because I am smart enough to know that I am not armed and he could be.

Blue: Again we have absolutely no evidence to support this possibility that I have seen. If evidence exists then maybe a case could be made.

[thh8d141]

Originally Posted by prophetic_joe

Confirmed reports? I have never seen this reported anywhere. AS far as I know we have witnesses before the shots stating that Martin was on top and Zimmerman was screaming, we have Martin's parents that say no the screaming was Martin's, we have additional witness that heard the shot and afterward saw Martin on the ground with Zimmerman standing up. Next we have Zimmerman's statement that he had given up following Martin because Martin ran and hid and was heading back to his truck, then he states Martin came from behind, confronted then attacked him. Now while this isn't fact we have the police report that there was evidence a fight did happen and that Zimmerman was on the receiving end of a beating. If there are confirmed reports somewhere that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation and made to pull something out of a pocket link it or copy it because I have seen no such report.

Please see another post. I wish I remembered where now, but it was based on Zimmerman's own words, confirmed by the local popo. May or may not be true, so this may or may not be a point.

[prophetic_joe]

Originally Posted by thh8d141

but this is based on Zimmerman's words, confirmed by the police.

If you are in a situation, and a suspicious person makes a move to a concealed part of his body, you're not going to stand there and hope he's got a candy bar. If these reports are true, then Trayvon's attack could be considered justified, which then places Zimmerman as the attacker, which changes a lawful action to an unlawful action.

Edited a bit for clarity. As far as I know Zimmerman's only words were that he was attacked as he was walking back to his truck, that during the attack Martin saw his firearm and went for it, Zimmerman got it first and shot. If Zimmerman pulled the firearm first and Martin had to fight for his life we have a totally different case however from my understanding we have no such evidence other than specualtion and while Zimmerman's story is only backed up by circumstantial evidence it is backed up a little.