Automotive Rant: Crooked Mechanics

[CrAz3D]

I distrust XXXX certified mechanics more than anyone. The "Ford experts" at local dealership didnt know jack about what was wrong with my truck (it was under warranty, so of course I took it there). I took it there a few times and they "fixed" things, but once I was out of warranty, I took it to a real mechanic and they identified the problem within minutes.

I trust reputation more than "certifications." Same for any work really. example: OK, you've got a PhD...that doesnt mean you know how to do anything. I know people without PhDs that are more helpful in a given field than PhD-ers.

[Axman]

Originally Posted by CrAz3D

I distrust XXXX certified mechanics more than anyone.

There is some truth in this, I know what you're talking about. Another friend of mine woke up to find his truck no longer shifting. The dealership wanted to replace the transmission for three grand.

So he went shopping and found a transmission repair specialist who said it'd be anywhere between one and three grand. It landed in the middle.

There's a replacement culture in more than just dealerships, where it's faster and easier to get a new transmission, lamp, door lock, computer, palm tree, or whatever. People fix things less now than they used to. That's not necessarily a good thing.

In any case, I said freeze plugs, not freeze pump. Freeze plugs are aluminum plugs in the engine block (steel) that fail if the car gets too cold. This is good in that the freeze plugs cost less to replace than an entire engine, and if it's that cold you can still drive without coolant anyway, at least for a little while.

But when you mix steel and aluminum in a loop with demineralized water you will see aluminum electolyse and dissolve. You can (and should) use demineralized water in the battery but not the coolant system.

[Clinton1621]

I wouldnt recommend driving at ALL without coolant, even if it is cold... unless you like replacing your water pump... and an engine will still overheat even in cold temps, it kind of produces its own heat, you know that whole burning gasoline side effect.

[xdmp22]

There is some truth in this, I know what you're talking about. Another friend of mine woke up to find his truck no longer shifting. The dealership wanted to replace the transmission for three grand.

So he went shopping and found a transmission repair specialist who said it'd be anywhere between one and three grand. It landed in the middle.

There's a replacement culture in more than just dealerships, where it's faster and easier to get a new transmission, lamp, door lock, computer, palm tree, or whatever. People fix things less now than they used to. That's not necessarily a good thing.

In any case, I said freeze plugs, not freeze pump. Freeze plugs are aluminum plugs in the engine block (steel) that fail if the car gets too cold. This is good in that the freeze plugs cost less to replace than an entire engine, and if it's that cold you can still drive without coolant anyway, at least for a little while.

But when you mix steel and aluminum in a loop with demineralized water you will see aluminum electolyse and dissolve. You can (and should) use demineralized water in the battery but not the coolant system.

Third paragraph...you said freeze pump...no biggy just a typo

About a year ago, a friend of mine was looking to get rid of his car and buy a new one. He just wanted to give it away, he'd had some bad experiences with that car and was ready to get something brand-new. He's er, independently wealthy so things like selling older cars doesn't really appeal to him.

Well as it stood, my little winter beater was getting old. A year before this, it had gotten so cold (what temperature below freezing is both Fahrenheit and Celsius? It was colder than that.) and pulling on the exterior door handle was enough force to cause the mechanism to snap. The driver's side door opened only from the inside. This didn't bother me so much, I just got in from the other side. Then another friend of mine needed a new car in a hurry, so I took the newer old car and gave away my older old car. Everyone wins.

Since then, I've had to have the fuel pump replaced, the coolant system freeze plugs replaced, and this morning, the battery. The battery, some other stuff I can do. Freeze plugs fxck that, hell no. I've tooled around inside long enough to realize something: the mechanic the original owner took it to, a "longtime family friend"-type shop, had been deliberately fxcking the car up. The freeze pumps failed because he'd used demineralized water in the coolant system. The battery failed I think because it was rebuilt; it looked tampered with, the negative terminal was warped and the battery lid loose like it had been pried open. The battery cables were cut short, the cable terminals replaced (they don't match, to boot) they barely reach the new battery's terminals, and the rewiring job used a bundle of what look like 14-gague wire, glued together with electrical tape that's melted into its base elements, all wrapped up in cheap plastic ducting. The whole battery box/shelf was beat up, cracked, and bent. I could barely squeeze the new battery in and the brace sure as hell wouldn't screw shut. It's a Toyota Corolla, you have to fxck them up deliberately to make them fail like this.

And I went over the car's work history, and each of these systems has been tooled on by the same shop. I can't help but think these guys looked my friend up and down and saw dollar signs. Antique coins and classic-era philosophers he knows; cars not so much.

Anyway, aside from the rant, I gotta tell my friend not to take his car back there, not to mention his mom's car, who's clearly in the little-old-lady box, because I'm pretty sure at this point these guys are using them.

Freakin' free car's set me back 1,800 bucks. I sorta miss my old beater. For all it's shortcomings, that '87 Tercel still got 40mpg and it took more than a few feet of snow to ground it.

I too do all my own work, every time I have taken my vehicles to somwone else something gets screwed up......

I feel your pain....good luck

And you freeze pumps/plugs failed not because of the water, but because of bad/missing grounds to the engine, causing the electrolisys (sp?)

[Brickboy240]

Sorry that happened to you.

I am fortunate to have a good relationship with a local indy mechanic that specializes in Volvo and Saabs. His father started the shop and its all paid for, so he is not in it to gouge anyone and make tons of money. The guy is a Swede ex-pat and just loves Swedish cars. Someone I know is not going to screw me. He is also encyclopedic about Swedish cars and often tell me over the phone, how to fix simple things.

One huge reason I own and drive Volvos and Saabs.

So yes, finding and having a relationship with a good car mechanic is critical, if you ask me. Overall...despite what some might think...I have actually found Volvos and Saabs to be pretty reliable, but I would not drive them if I did not have a great mechanic, nearby. With this guy's help and doing much of the maintenance myself with parts bought off the web, I have not found Swedish cars to be all that expensive or troublesome.

Try to seek out a good honest independent mechanic that knows your make of car. Or...if you know of a mechanic that is highly thought of in one type of car, buy and drive that brand and patronize that guy. In the end..it will give you fewer car headaches.

There ARE tons of crooks out there and some that are not crooked, but just want to make money and experiment on your car.

- brickboy240

[gsh341]

Originally Posted by Axman

There's a replacement culture in more than just dealerships, where it's faster and easier to get a new transmission, lamp, door lock, computer, palm tree, or whatever. People fix things less now than they used to. That's not necessarily a good thing.

Shortly after I got married we bought a decent, used Ford Aspire. It was cheap (in purchase price, maintenance cost and gas) and I was commuting 110 miles round trip every day.

One day it started a clicking sound that changed with the engine speed. I estimated at about 1/4 of the RPMs of the motor. I checked 3 different shops and they all estimated between $2,000 and $3,000. Since I only paid $3,500 for the car, that was not good news. One of them even suggested I needed a new motor!

However, I know a little about cars and I though perhaps a lifter had collapsed. So I bought a Haynes manual for the car, a set of 8 lifters and a torque wrench. With just about 45 minutes of work in the parking lot of the apartment, I managed to replace all 8 lifters and the car was running like a champ again. As suspected, I had 2 collapsed lifters.

Total cost of the repair?

$100!

If the shop had tried to do only what was needed, the repair would have cost about $250.

As for the car? It ran great until I got rid of it 2 years later.

[Brickboy240]

Back when we used to own a 1987 BMW 325i, I called and asked a local BMW dealership, what it would cost to replace a leaking radiator. They were VERY hesitant to quote me ANY numbers (my first pause).

After asking "how much to replace the radiator and re-fill with coolant?" the guy finally quoted me in the range of 625 dollars. (!!!)

I wound up buying the radiator online and having it delivered. An OEM unit from e-bay ran me about 180 bucks. I changed the thing out on the driveway in about 45 minutes...including replacing both hoses, the cap and the thermostat. No special tools needed: I used wrenches and screw drivers I already owned. Pretty simple.

When I was done, I had maybe spent a total of 275 dollars and 45 minutes to an hour on a Saturday afternoon.

Bottom line: try to do as much on your car, yourself, find decent parts sources AND find an honest mechanic for the things you cannot do or for sage advice.

- brickboy240

[AwPhuch]

Originally Posted by Axman

About a year ago, a friend of mine was looking to get rid of his car and buy a new one. He just wanted to give it away, he'd had some bad experiences with that car and was ready to get something brand-new. He's er, independently wealthy so things like selling older cars doesn't really appeal to him.

Well as it stood, my little winter beater was getting old. A year before this, it had gotten so cold (what temperature below freezing is both Fahrenheit and Celsius? It was colder than that.) and pulling on the exterior door handle was enough force to cause the mechanism to snap. The driver's side door opened only from the inside. This didn't bother me so much, I just got in from the other side. Then another friend of mine needed a new car in a hurry, so I took the newer old car and gave away my older old car. Everyone wins.

Since then, I've had to have the fuel pump replaced, the coolant system freeze plugs replaced, and this morning, the battery. The battery, some other stuff I can do. Freeze plugs fxck that, hell no. I've tooled around inside long enough to realize something: the mechanic the original owner took it to, a "longtime family friend"-type shop, had been deliberately fxcking the car up. The freeze pumps failed because he'd used demineralized water in the coolant system. The battery failed I think because it was rebuilt; it looked tampered with, the negative terminal was warped and the battery lid loose like it had been pried open. The battery cables were cut short, the cable terminals replaced (they don't match, to boot) they barely reach the new battery's terminals, and the rewiring job used a bundle of what look like 14-gague wire, glued together with electrical tape that's melted into its base elements, all wrapped up in cheap plastic ducting. The whole battery box/shelf was beat up, cracked, and bent. I could barely squeeze the new battery in and the brace sure as hell wouldn't screw shut. It's a Toyota Corolla, you have to fxck them up deliberately to make them fail like this.

And I went over the car's work history, and each of these systems has been tooled on by the same shop. I can't help but think these guys looked my friend up and down and saw dollar signs. Antique coins and classic-era philosophers he knows; cars not so much.

Anyway, aside from the rant, I gotta tell my friend not to take his car back there, not to mention his mom's car, who's clearly in the little-old-lady box, because I'm pretty sure at this point these guys are using them.

Freakin' free car's set me back 1,800 bucks. I sorta miss my old beater. For all it's shortcomings, that '87 Tercel still got 40mpg and it took more than a few feet of snow to ground it.

I had somewhat the same deal...buddy had a 94 Chrysler LHS sitting in a field (storage for $60 a month!!) for 2 years...paint faded to crap, he said it was running rough when he parked it. I borrowed my brother in laws dodge ram 2500 w/ diesel and towed it home...for a month me and the wife tore thru the car trying to get it to run right..checked all sensors and whatnot, even tore the intake off and all that...was about to tear the intake manifold off because I read the gasket might leak making it run rough..but the last ditch was to check the timing belt...found it 1 tooth off on passenger side...we fought for 2 days to get it to light up perfectly...once we got it, the car purred like a kitten....I got about 40k~ miles out of it before I had to replace the tranny...so I have around $3k in a free car, so far..its my commute vehicle to work..and its running like a scalded ape!

You will save A TON of money doing it yourself! (my wifes brothers are all mechanics (shadetree types) and usually costs me a case of beer and all my mechanican needs are taken care of..plus its sexy when my wife has oil all over her..heh

[donmopar]

freeze plugs are not to prevent the block from freezing they are only there to remove the casting sand. I think what you are trying to say is the mechanic did not use coolant so it did freeze and you lucked out that only the freeze plug did pop. It doesn't seem like the things you have mentioned would cost $1800. I would assume a battery and some new wires would be at most $200 a fuel pump another $200 plus labor. There are shops here that would put a motor in for $300-$500 so a freeze plug would be less. So I would question your mechanic's ethics etc. as well. In the end if you are not a mechanic yourself you should not buy older cars. The labor to fix them far exceeds the savings of buying one. If you did the repairs yourself you would have spent less than $300. Also mechanic's can be idiots I was a mechanic and the things they did often disturbed me.

[cz75luver]

My neighbor's son works at a Toyo dealership in the mechanics shop. IMHO, a person would be better served giving a hammer to a chimp than letting this kid work on a car. Needless to say, they are always having car problems and AFTER their initial try at something, end up having to take work to a "more qualified" person. Honestly, the kid will try something and if it doesn't work, he looks for something with more power. AND he's working on people cars at the dealership?.? SAE qualified?.? Sure, whatever!?!

I do all my own work with the exception of things that have an environmental impact such as the refresh of radiator fluid and the like.