Is this anti-gun non-sense? - Page 3 - XDTalk Forums - Your HS2000/SA-XD Information Source!

**beardman2** · 05-05-2006, 10:40 PM

ok I'm no hunter. Especially not a bow hunter. But accourding to this website http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm.arrow-energy.html it only takes 65 ft/lbs to take down some pretty hefty game.

A 180 grain bullet is only going to need 400fps (272mph) to make 64 ft/lbs
A 115 grain bullet is only going to need 500fps to make 64 ft/lbs

I'm sure someone with a little better math skills than me could figure out at what angle you would have to shoot a 9mm at common ammo velocities to come down and mile and a half away and how much energy it would have.

CyberOtaku · 05-05-2006, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beardman2

I'm sure someone with a little better math skills than me could figure out at what angle you would have to shoot a 9mm at common ammo velocities to come down and mile and a half away and how much energy it would have.

I expect the terminal velocity would be sufficient if the bullet maintains its trajectory. If the bullet simply freefalls it falls on its side and tumble, but if it remains on its ballistic trajectory the bullet continues to spin so it remains stable and falls on its nose.

retired · 05-06-2006, 02:31 AM

When I worked patrol I went to two separate calls myself involving this type of incident. IIRC, they were both July 4th incidents.

In one, the bullet went thru the roof of a VW bug (yes, I said bug, not new beetle, I worked the street a while ago; I'm old

). It landed on the floor, between the seats. No one was in the parked car at the time.

In the other, a woman was taking a shower and a bullet went thru her roof and the shower ceiling without hitting her, coming to rest on the the shower floor.

We were briefed one year after New Year's, about a young boy in one of our other station's patrol area (don't recall which one), wherein he was hit in the top of the head by a bullet and died.

These and similar incidents are why Ca. passed a law sometime ago making it a felony to discharge any firearm in an inhabited area.

Anyone who shoot a firearm into the air, whether it be a residential street or a forest area is irresponsible IMO. You never know when someone could be in that forest.

DJDan · 05-06-2006, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Ray

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJDan

My GF's father has owned a roofing company for 30+ years. He stated that MANY times he was called for a leak he would go into an attic and find a small hole in the roof and a slug on the floor. I'm not sure but he MAY have a jar with all the slugs he's found over the years.

Guys....come on...it's a PROVEN FACT that shooting your gun off in the air can KILL people!!!

Don't do it...simply put..its a RETAAAADED thing to do.

A guy I worked with in the past had a Nissan Murano. On N Y Eve a bullet went through the windshiled of the vehicle and quite far into the dashboard from some jackass "Celebrating" by shooting his gun off in the air.

It is NOT an OK thing to do....and it isnt ANTI-GUN to say so.

Come on Dan.. that is bull****!! LOL.. Have you ever tried to put a hole in your windshield? It's not as easy as you think. You would shatter the whole thing before you put a hole in it. Sure, if you shoot right at it, but a falling bullet will not do it. As for the roofs.. I don't believe it...

It's not a proven fact.. it's a myth...

Raymond

CR...I'm usually behind you 100% but I gotta say that I don't BS about stuff like this...or much at all...and I do know that windshields are tempered and coated and all that...but wat happened, happened. I saw the damage and slug after (actually during removal) it was extracted with my own two eyes. This is not a "story" to make people more alert or educated. This happened...call BS if you like.

If a bullet can go through a human skull and the roof of a building, etc. why do you think a windshield would be the stop all....the glass is tough, but bulletproof it is not.

At any rate it's good to see you back CR...you arent taking it out on me about the "retaaaded" comment on an earlier post in this thread vs. your stated actions on another forum are you?

In no way do I mean to pick on people that have done this in the past thinking they would not harm anyone...but take it at face value now if you are just learning and don't ever do it again.

My dad admitted to doing it a couple of times a LOOOOONG time ago and I forced him to look at the facts and educated him (a rare reverse occasion) letting him know it IS dangerous, and potentially lethal to do.

If you choose to shoot your gun off in the air you may hurt or kill someone.

I don't know how much more clear it can be stated.

Captain Ray · 05-06-2006, 01:42 PM

I may be a little defensive about this topic.. because I did shoot my gun into the air one time, and was pretty roundly told what a dumb-ass I was. That is when I started looking into it...

I am not saying it is a good idea.. I just don't see the immediate harm that some would imagine. I won't do it again.. just because if I do Lilly will probably kick my ass (You can't hit back if it's a girl) ..

All I am saying is the math does not seem to support the theory.

Raymond

jkswiss · 05-06-2006, 02:38 PM

I won't shoot my gun in the air because I think its an idiotic thing to do and puts other people unneccessarily at risk. If one must shoot a gun during celebrations, I think shooting the ground is a better bet. It seems like all the rules we learned, like always shooting against a backstop, seem to go away during the 4th of July and New Years. Its suddenly perfectly OK to shoot your gun and not know where your bullets going. I can't see how some people can think that its ok to do this. Its just mind boggling to me.

**Parrishco** · 05-06-2006, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Ray

All I am saying is the math does not seem to support the theory.

Raymond

Just because you dont understand the math doesnt mean you can just dismiss the facts of the matter:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old School

It was looking like this was going to be busted, but, as it turns out, there is an international expert on falling bullets working in nearby Stanford. The expert, Dr. David G Mohler, told them about a case in Menlo Park where a woman sitting in a lawn chair was struck in the leg by a bullet that was fired into the air 1 1/2 miles away during a 4th of July celebration. Mohler recovered the bullet from her leg and the police were able to match the ballistics to a shooter.

Mohler also told them about a case of an elderly man in Alameda who was talking to his wife underneath a plastic corrugated roof in his carport. His eyes rolled up and his wife thought he was having a stroke. When they got to the hospital they found out there was a bullet in his brain and, unfortunately, he died.

"I know for a fact that bullets fired at a distance, returning to Earth, with terminal velocity, have the ability to kill people." - Dr. Mohler

I too saw this show. People have been killed from bullets falling from the sky, fired from very far away. Take the facts you know and then figure out how it happend with math. You cant just assume because you dont understand all of it must be a lie. I certainly do not mean or want to be condescending but that is close-minded stupidity.

So now back to the regular fantastic XD programing...

USMCCaptain · 05-08-2006, 02:35 PM

I saw the show mythbusters about this very topic. If the bullet was shot PERFECTLY straight up in the air, it's terminal velocity is not enough to do the damage being described. However if the slightest angle is made on the shot the bullet maintains it's ARCKED velocity and can injure or kill a person.

05-05-2006, 10:40 PM	#21
beardman2 XDTalk 4K Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 4,955	ok I'm no hunter. Especially not a bow hunter. But accourding to this website http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm.arrow-energy.html it only takes 65 ft/lbs to take down some pretty hefty game. A 180 grain bullet is only going to need 400fps (272mph) to make 64 ft/lbs A 115 grain bullet is only going to need 500fps to make 64 ft/lbs I'm sure someone with a little better math skills than me could figure out at what angle you would have to shoot a 9mm at common ammo velocities to come down and mile and a half away and how much energy it would have. __________________ - He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from opposition; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach himself. ~Thomas Paine I will not be involved with the dreams of angry men. Founding Documents Freedom isn't free: http://www.anysoldier.com

05-06-2006, 01:42 PM	#25
Captain Ray XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,693	I may be a little defensive about this topic.. because I did shoot my gun into the air one time, and was pretty roundly told what a dumb-ass I was. That is when I started looking into it... I am not saying it is a good idea.. I just don't see the immediate harm that some would imagine. I won't do it again.. just because if I do Lilly will probably kick my ass (You can't hit back if it's a girl) .. All I am saying is the math does not seem to support the theory. Raymond __________________ \"I have been driven many times upon my knees by the overwhelming conviction that I had nowhere else to go. My own wisdom and that of all about me seemed insufficient for that day.\" ~Abraham Lincoln~

05-08-2006, 02:35 PM	#28
USMCCaptain XDTalk Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 99	Bullet hits bridesmaid I saw the show mythbusters about this very topic. If the bullet was shot PERFECTLY straight up in the air, it's terminal velocity is not enough to do the damage being described. However if the slightest angle is made on the shot the bullet maintains it's ARCKED velocity and can injure or kill a person. __________________ "The Only Easy day, was YESTERDAY"

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05-06-2006, 02:31 AM	#23
retired XDTalk 5K Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: S. Calif. Posts: 5,532	When I worked patrol I went to two separate calls myself involving this type of incident. IIRC, they were both July 4th incidents. In one, the bullet went thru the roof of a VW bug (yes, I said bug, not new beetle, I worked the street a while ago; I'm old ). It landed on the floor, between the seats. No one was in the parked car at the time. In the other, a woman was taking a shower and a bullet went thru her roof and the shower ceiling without hitting her, coming to rest on the the shower floor. We were briefed one year after New Year's, about a young boy in one of our other station's patrol area (don't recall which one), wherein he was hit in the top of the head by a bullet and died. These and similar incidents are why Ca. passed a law sometime ago making it a felony to discharge any firearm in an inhabited area. Anyone who shoot a firearm into the air, whether it be a residential street or a forest area is irresponsible IMO. You never know when someone could be in that forest.

05-06-2006, 02:38 PM	#26
jkswiss XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,085	I won't shoot my gun in the air because I think its an idiotic thing to do and puts other people unneccessarily at risk. If one must shoot a gun during celebrations, I think shooting the ground is a better bet. It seems like all the rules we learned, like always shooting against a backstop, seem to go away during the 4th of July and New Years. Its suddenly perfectly OK to shoot your gun and not know where your bullets going. I can't see how some people can think that its ok to do this. Its just mind boggling to me.