Just got back from a 3day advanced handgun @ Tiger Valley

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Intro:
I decided to ante up and dedicate my last couple months in Ohio before i move and graduate and do alot of training. I am only taking 12 credit hours this quarter and graduate in June. So, I thought I would do as much as I could before I applied to professional school and/or got a 'real job'. When I saw BenHuntin's post about Tiger Valley's Precision Rifle Class, I was set to go. I had just finished completing my SPR Build (half way down the page). And in no way shape or form, was I ever good at precision shooting.

Contacted Brian, we emailed alot about the details of the class, but being a full time student and working, I had to get %110 utility out of the class. So, along with registering for the precision class I registered for the Advanced Handgun also, and there it began.

Travel/Arrival/Site Logistics/Registration:
I arrived thursday night before the class started. Being 23, I still cannot rent a rental car without getting raped on the price. A fellow member Wganz was nice enough to pick me up at the airport and we headed to the class together. We arrived relatively late, but other class memers were already present. I was the only one to fly in for this class, which already put me into the 'special' category. So I had to really maximize the space in my luggage to bring all the essential gear and cut all the 'fat'. The range is outside of Waco, TX. It is truly in the middle of farm country, there are hotels in town around a 20minute drive. And the gas station down the road was the only relatively close place to order food if you didn't bring your own. But they make the best damn breakfest burrito I have ever had.

Training Day 1 (TD1) and Training day 2:
After registration, the basic paperwork, the class was instructed to meet on the range to begin shooting. TV has a very basic yet effecient setup. I believe there are 7 pistol bays, and one 1 rifle bay, then the 1000 range with pit services. As the pistol class, we met in the pistol bays for each excercise. No classroom lecture or nonsense, it was all learned on the range.

TJ doesn't waste your time, and doesn't talk more than he has to. If you ask him his personal experiences, he'll tell you, but his main goal is to get bullets sent down range. This was an advanced pistol course, and it was taught as such. There was minimal down time when it came to demonstrating, he would give a basic display on how to do the technique, and then he would allow the relays to shoot. And **** did we shoot. He engrained the techniques into us by muscle memory. No matter how long you have shot, you still anticipate recoil, slap the trigger, mash the gun, and so on. So in his teaching methods, he wants us to get past that as much as possible.

The entire class was shot on steel. Nuff said, **** paper[+]]

One thing some students were looking for was instruction in reloading/malfunction clearing/and some other topics that should have been covered in their introductory course that they took. We jumped right into shooting on the move. Shooting while slowly heel-toeing (sp) forward, front sight trigger squeeze, avoiding cadence shooting, yet trying to shoot as smooth and as fast as possible, definitely added a dynamic to shooting I haven't had a chance to experience.

We worked on shooting stationary with weak hand, which is all sorts of fun. We trained working on transitioning from strong to weak, all under time restraints. We then added everything into the mixer and worked on shooting weak hand while moving laterally, across all the steel targets. Which opened up my eyes to my own training short-comings[B)]

We had a chance to back all the way up, almost outside the pistol bay (50-60 yards?) to really concentrate on front sight/trigger squeeze. And dinging those damn pepper poppers at that distance, is truly rewarding.

We trained shooting proned out, wihch was a technique i never considered really useful with a pistol. But TJ allowed us to discover our own capabilities with a pistol, and if for some reason I had to make a shot on a human sized target @ or around 100yards with a .45acp, I know I could do it now. Which is something I never thought I could do.

-shooting kneeling
-shooting squated

Each of the pistol bays had a unique training lesson to teach. We utilized this one bay to move in a forward motion, but we had to engage steel targets to our 9 and 3 o'clock positions when they presented themselves into view. This gave a unique outlook of trying to fight your way out of a hallway or building and you were taking on targets from 180 degrees infront of you, with a final 'head shot' at the end to your 12 o'clock. This drill emphasized the basics, when it comes down to it, front sight trigger squeeze. Everything else should be muscle memory or a blur.

We had the opportunity to engage moving targets. Another pistol bay had a moving steel target that moved on a horizontal in front of you. For some reason, in my mind, I thought you would have to lead the popper alot more. You really didn't, put your front sight on the 1/3 side, l or r, and you were good to go.


TD3:

The last day of training took the lessons learned in TD1/TD2 and incorporated them into some real life scenarios. Not necessarily for the average civilain, but damn was it fun.

We rotated through out a couple of scenarios on the last day.
We rotated through a make shift shoot house, that was simply built, but fully customizable. We were not chained to the instructor or have to ask permission to engage a target, as long as we didn't break the 180 rule, we were good to go. This was alot of fun, and not much instruction was given before the shoot house, but it was a good learning curve to see how people entered the situation. And it reaffirmed my stance on 'clearing my house'. It is not in the best interests to go clear your house by yourself unless absolutely necessary to try to save the life of a loved one. This was clearly displayed when people went through. But that is why they were there.

Another scenario was a blackhawk down lane. We had to present our weapon and engage steel targets that were covered up by t-shirts, but they were all at different angles in relation to the shooter. So, you could blast the target, and never make it drop. You had to truly focus on the thoracic cavity to get the popper to drop. And a little plug here, this is where the .45acp shined [flame]. Some people shooting 9mm had a hard time taking them down. After engaging all these targets, you had to go kneeling and engage a human sized target @ 80yards. I dont know about other groups, but my group did damn well at this task. Out of 8, i think 4 hit it first time out, and the other 4 had only taken 3 or less rounds to hit it.

I think the most realistic training we had was this paintball lane. This lane had barriers we used for cover and concealment while engaging targets. Well, we had a 'training'. It was a remote controled paintball gun that could fire independentally and have target discrimination. We had to wear masks, and we had to low crawl to and from our side arm to our magazines when we wanted to reload. It really allowed people to get an idea of how it felt to be shot at, and you definitely saw some eyes opening after this drill.

The last rotation was obviously the one we all waited for. The Baghdad Mile. This is where TJ would role his truck down the service road of the 1000 meter range, and allow students to engage human sized targets out his tailgate while he passed them. There is not much to describe this, other than alot of ****ing fun. Not many people could say that they have shot out of a cop's car, legally [:P]


Lessons Learned:

1.) use good mags
2.) be strict with your cleaning routine when you take a class
3.) when you buy cheap ammo, you get what you pay for
4.) tap/rack is your friend and should be second nature
5.) front sight trigger squeeze
6.) a pistol is a substandard weapon, no doubt. But dont be afraid to exploit it.
7.) Do not be that asshole holding up the class for whatever reason, be it self-answering questions, arguing, or just plane attention seeking. If you want attention, shoot well or shoot bad, either one will get the instructor to pay attention to you. Pull someone off to the side if you feel yourself behind the power curve.



Gear Used:

Primary Pistol: YoBo/Tripp 5inch 1911
Backup Pistol: Ed Brown Commander
Primary Holster: Safariland 6280-5621 for railed 1911s, mounted in a HSGI UDHP
Backup Holster: Bladetech Kydex, belt mounted

Line Gear:
I used a tactical tailor rigger's belt, which I really liked. Thick, had velcro so that the extra belt would stay out of the way. And it fit in the jeans I brought with me. I attached my drop leg system to that, then covered that with a tactical tailor molle belt, with a total of 4 pistol pouches attached on weak side around the 1-2 o'clock position. These pouches were nice, they had the kydex inserts in them so I ould run them without the flaps secured without worrying about the mags coming loose.

With the round count of this class, I decided to try out a dump pouch, and I am really glad I did. I went with the maxpedition medium sized. Worked great for pistol mags, but I dont think it would work well for a carbine class. On top of the round count, and shooting from moving vehicles, I went with a lanyard setup from TT .

I dont consider myself a gear whore, and this was my first big 'gear' purchase. I am glad I went with what I did, because I can continue to use every piece of equipment for upcoming carbine classes, nothing will go unused in the future.

I used a pair of knee pads, glad I brought them. I also picked them up from TT, they actually worked. I hate knee pads though, these weren't as much of a nuisance.

Magazines:
I brought a mix of brand new, like new, used, and really used wilson mags. Real quick lesson, dont bring REALLY used mags. You'll regret it. I was having some problems on TD1 premature slide lock and a mix of FTF stove pipes. I tried some other mags of my instructors, no problems. No problems with his ammo either, and he was running some reman. reloads that were not FMJs. No problems what so ever...which leads me into..

Ammunition:
I bought 3,000 rounds of .45acp from Midway. $660 shipped, 22cents a round shipped. Not too damn bad. BUT - you get what you pay for. There was a discussion about blazer brass having problems with the bullet being easily pushed back into the case. It is really dirty ammo, I knew that coming into class though. It fed reliably before class, but I didnt get a chance to stress the gun before class with a high round count. Once we got to 900+ rounds in TD1, that is when I started to see the failures to feed. Nothing tap rack couldn't fix, but I also felt the trigger becoming gritty and sticky. Did a field strip, cleaned, felt better. Only a failure or 2 on TD1 and I dont think any on TD3. Did a detailed full strip/cleaning before the rifle class, and the trgger was back to the original state.

I still have alot of the blazer left over, 800-1000 rounds, that I'll have to use for another class upcoming. I'll jus be more watchful and make sure to keep the gun REAL clean.

What Worked and What Didn't:

People who came to this class all had a good sense of what worked and what did. Alot of peple ran drop leg rigs with multiple ammo carriers, and some just used a belt mounted holster and an ammo carrier.

One thing about the curriculum at Tiger Valley though, if your **** didn't work, you better fix it. We moved fast and hard, and didn't have time to fix gear related issues. If a weapon went down, then an instructor would help you out. There were a couple of glocks that were choking on some reloads, and a series 2 kimber that jammed real bad early on a reload, and my gun that occasionally choked on blazer brass, other than that, I never saw anyone rotate to a new weapon system.

Miscellaneous:

Safe Queens, Dirt, and Use:
I was doing some recovery this morning and going over my gear and weapons. After cleaning up the sunblock that leaked in my main suit case [], I looked over my primary pistol. It was 'new' going into the class, it doesn't look new now [^]. I didn't see much of this at class though, not too many people were babying their weapons during the day, but dont come to class with your pristine carry gun that you are going to want to put back into your safe the same way it came out. This was a fighting course, you learned how to fight with your weapon. And winning the fight doesn't mean coming out in pristine condition, physically or mentally. So be ready to get dirty, and be ready to have your gun show some wear.

Site Location:

As mentioned before, Tiger Valley is in the middle of nowhere, outside Waco. And Waco isn't the best of 'towns'. Be prepared to travel even if your in the DFW area, and be prepared to have enough food and water for the day. While TV was nice enough to allow people to use their facilities, sometimes there wasn't enough time to run back up to the office and cook. You should be prepared to have something in your POV ready to go for a quick snack.
The site is located in the plains of eastern texas, not that many trees on the range to find for shade, or benches to grab a seat. Be prepared for the elements, although the 8 days I was there we had perfect weather everyday. NO rain, no tornadoes.

Conclusion:

I didn't know anything about Tiger Valley before I registerd or came to the course. I have heard about TJ Pilling though. After we started the pistol class, I knew I would get all 8 days of quality training I wanted and paid for. While TJ had adjuncts during the pistol course, they were volunteers doing it because they believe in TV. So, when it comes to paid employees, it is a one man band with TJ leading. With that in mind, dont expect the 'fluff and buff' that you would get from Front Sight, Gun Site, Thunder Ranch. In the words of a favorite NCO, " meat and potatoes." That is what you will get at Tiger Valley. In the end, anyone on the edge of signing up for their classes, they are offering a shotgun course and a man-tracking here relatively soon, do not hesitate. If you are going to wait out for one of their pistol/carbine/precision rifle courses, sign up soon. The ratio of price to training will not remain the way it is after the next couple of months when the name starts to spread.

[Jettubby]

What course did you attend?

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Originally Posted by Jettubby

What course did you attend?

3 day advanced tactical handgun and the 5 day precision/'sniper' course

[O.C. 4 U]

I notice you're from ohio, have u ever done any training at TDI ? If so ; how was it ? (don't mean to hi-jack your post , just interested)

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Originally Posted by O.C. 4 U

I notice you're from ohio, have u ever done any training at TDI ? If so ; how was it ? (don't mean to hi-jack your post , just interested)

Not personally, had a good friend attend a course there. I heard nothing but good things..

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ttt, all done.