Been feeling a little funny carrying in church... - Page 2 - XDTalk Forums - Your HS2000/SA-XD Information Source!

**nikon777** · 02-26-2006, 10:54 PM

Me being muslim, i always carry in the mosque. i feel much better. some people in the U.S. have a twisted view of islam, so im always leary of some one running in the mosque starting trouble, or potentially seeking to cause harm. Right after 911, people were driving cars into mosques etc.

**Kauzi XD45** · 02-26-2006, 11:02 PM

luckily we never run out of dumb asses to give us excuses for our paranoia!

Onelifetolive_h927 · 02-26-2006, 11:20 PM

Guns certainly have their place in church. This church shooting is far from the first and will not be the last. I can remember two last year off the top of my head. I believe that schools and churches are some of the best soft target you have and therefore should be protected. Schools have already banned guns and will probably not change. In some states churches allow it in others the government says they can't. Churches have large groups of people in one place with only a couple exits. There are usually people who either disagree with their beliefs or believe something opposed to their beliefs. From what I remember one incident involved an angry former member who walked in shooting and the other one the pastor was murdered by someone that had never attended he just lived nearby. It is sad, pointless violence. Churches should be sanctuaries from everything, condemnation, judging, anger, jealousy and of course physical violence, but this is the responsibility of those attending. If they have those attitudes one will not feel safe attending, if the church does not take measures to prevent physical violence they are not providing the sanctuary that people expect.

I see two catagories in church related violence. For example in some Muslim dominated countries it is illegal to convert to Christianity and Christian pastors are jailed and congregations are raided. This is martyrdom and persecution and is not to be resisted by force. The other catagory is criminal activity. Here somebody wants to kill and/or rob somebody in the church or on church grounds. The victim/s deserve the opportunity to defend their life. Self defense is not against the Bibles teachings when you look at Old or New Testament. The defense of the innocent against an aggressor is not to be shunned. There is a difference between killing and murder. One is sin the other should be avoided, but is not sin. I want to see the innocent protected no matter who they are or where they are. If this involves the use of firearms so be it. Every house of worship should be safe, just like every household should be or every business. Just because somebody believes in peace and love doesn't mean that they have to let somebody take advantage of them.

In my state of VA it is illegal to carry concealed in church during a service. So during the service my gun is far from me. However when I'm there outside of a service it's on me. I may ask my pastor about carrying all the time because it is private property. I know there are several imposing men that are the ushers/security. One is just big, one is a cop. I have witnessed them remove a man who was disruptive. Once he was outside the building the police took care of him, but there is a group of men who keep their eyes open. And I am thankful for this.

No, of course God didn't cause this guy to commit murder to answer this forum members question. He says that he has had this thought before so it's not the first time that he has questioned carrying a gun in a house of worship. This time however there was something that helped him find an answer. That is true about asking a question and often finding the answer soon after like that. But if you have not asked the question you would not have recognized the answer. You see the answer because you were seeking it.

Oni · 02-26-2006, 11:44 PM

Killing and murder have the same result, people dead. The idea of packing in church is odd, although I'd rather be armed than defensless. I hate hearing news like this, it's so depressing and I hate being mislead into a false sense of safety.

attackrott · 02-27-2006, 06:28 AM

sjp2452 are you LO or does MN ccw allow you to carry in a church. I carry any were that I can but unfortunately MO law does not allow you to carry in a house of worship (church, temple, etc) unless you are LO. I guess I could just carry anyway but I try to obey the law at all possible.

You just keep carrying. If it is concealed they wont know and in the unfortunate situation were it is needed the wackos will still get mad and raise a fuss but the out come will be a lot better.

aiformula · 02-27-2006, 06:37 AM

I know there are at least 2 churches in this area where they have several designated people carrying during any service or large event. They apparently even have gone so far as to have quarterly response practice INSIDE the church. This may seem odd to some, but if I were going to that church, I personally would feel a little better. Instead I just stay home and treat my body as a temple and allow it the rest that it missed the rest of the week.

Matt`G · 02-27-2006, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by attackrott

sjp2452 are you LO or does MN ccw allow you to carry in a church. I carry any were that I can but unfortunately MO law does not allow you to carry in a house of worship (church, temple, etc) unless you are LO. I guess I could just carry anyway but I try to obey the law at all possible.

You just keep carrying. If it is concealed they wont know and in the unfortunate situation were it is needed the wackos will still get mad and raise a fuss but the out come will be a lot better.

Michigan is the same way, unless the head of the church allows concealed carry. Unfortunately this is yet another sad CEZ example. =(

Hooligan · 02-27-2006, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt`G

Quote:

Originally Posted by attackrott

sjp2452 are you LO or does MN ccw allow you to carry in a church. I carry any were that I can but unfortunately MO law does not allow you to carry in a house of worship (church, temple, etc) unless you are LO. I guess I could just carry anyway but I try to obey the law at all possible.

You just keep carrying. If it is concealed they wont know and in the unfortunate situation were it is needed the wackos will still get mad and raise a fuss but the out come will be a lot better.

Michigan is the same way, unless the head of the church allows concealed carry. Unfortunately this is yet another sad CEZ example. =(

Ohio is the same way. You can't carry unless the head of the church allows it. The way I see it? God is the head of the church. I asked if it was ok, and he said yes. Concealed is concealed, so no one should ever have to know about it. Plus its only a misdemeanor carrying into a church, so I would much rather be safe (and keep my fiance safe) than worry about a silly misdemeanor.

aiformula · 02-27-2006, 01:40 PM

I just view it as "If it isn't posted, it's fair game"

Not that I normally worry about carrying in church unless I'm going to a wedding/funeral.

sjp2452 · 02-27-2006, 01:54 PM

I don't believe there's anything in MN law prohibiting CCW in a house of worship. There are a number of churches in MN that have been fighting the CCW law, trying to get a restriction on carry in church so that they don't have to post a sign. So far they've failed...

Oh the questions I'll have for Jesus when I get to heaven...

02-26-2006, 10:54 PM	#11
nikon777 XDTalk 5K Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Cleveland, OH. The Danger Zone. Posts: 7,447	Me being muslim, i always carry in the mosque. i feel much better. some people in the U.S. have a twisted view of islam, so im always leary of some one running in the mosque starting trouble, or potentially seeking to cause harm. Right after 911, people were driving cars into mosques etc. __________________ 1. Banning of future weapons. 2. Registering current weapons. 3. Confiscation. My blog

02-26-2006, 11:02 PM	#12
Kauzi XD45 XDTalk 2K Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: The Wonderful Wild West - Grand Junction, Colorado Posts: 2,144 Blog Entries: 1	luckily we never run out of dumb asses to give us excuses for our paranoia! __________________ Respect Few, Fear NONE! Sic Vis Pacem Parabellum! People understand compassion, mercy, dignity and honor.... Predators understand STRENGTH!

02-26-2006, 11:20 PM	#13
Onelifetolive_h927 XDTalk Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: VA Posts: 93	guns in church Guns certainly have their place in church. This church shooting is far from the first and will not be the last. I can remember two last year off the top of my head. I believe that schools and churches are some of the best soft target you have and therefore should be protected. Schools have already banned guns and will probably not change. In some states churches allow it in others the government says they can't. Churches have large groups of people in one place with only a couple exits. There are usually people who either disagree with their beliefs or believe something opposed to their beliefs. From what I remember one incident involved an angry former member who walked in shooting and the other one the pastor was murdered by someone that had never attended he just lived nearby. It is sad, pointless violence. Churches should be sanctuaries from everything, condemnation, judging, anger, jealousy and of course physical violence, but this is the responsibility of those attending. If they have those attitudes one will not feel safe attending, if the church does not take measures to prevent physical violence they are not providing the sanctuary that people expect. I see two catagories in church related violence. For example in some Muslim dominated countries it is illegal to convert to Christianity and Christian pastors are jailed and congregations are raided. This is martyrdom and persecution and is not to be resisted by force. The other catagory is criminal activity. Here somebody wants to kill and/or rob somebody in the church or on church grounds. The victim/s deserve the opportunity to defend their life. Self defense is not against the Bibles teachings when you look at Old or New Testament. The defense of the innocent against an aggressor is not to be shunned. There is a difference between killing and murder. One is sin the other should be avoided, but is not sin. I want to see the innocent protected no matter who they are or where they are. If this involves the use of firearms so be it. Every house of worship should be safe, just like every household should be or every business. Just because somebody believes in peace and love doesn't mean that they have to let somebody take advantage of them. In my state of VA it is illegal to carry concealed in church during a service. So during the service my gun is far from me. However when I'm there outside of a service it's on me. I may ask my pastor about carrying all the time because it is private property. I know there are several imposing men that are the ushers/security. One is just big, one is a cop. I have witnessed them remove a man who was disruptive. Once he was outside the building the police took care of him, but there is a group of men who keep their eyes open. And I am thankful for this. No, of course God didn't cause this guy to commit murder to answer this forum members question. He says that he has had this thought before so it's not the first time that he has questioned carrying a gun in a house of worship. This time however there was something that helped him find an answer. That is true about asking a question and often finding the answer soon after like that. But if you have not asked the question you would not have recognized the answer. You see the answer because you were seeking it. __________________ Luke 22:36 He said, "This is different. Get ready for trouble. Look to what you'll need; there are difficult times ahead. Pawn your coat and get a sword.

02-26-2006, 11:44 PM	#14
Oni XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,544	Killing and murder have the same result, people dead. The idea of packing in church is odd, although I'd rather be armed than defensless. I hate hearing news like this, it's so depressing and I hate being mislead into a false sense of safety. __________________ I came here for only 1 thing and you mother f-uckers did nothing but lie and instill me with false hope. F-uck off.

02-27-2006, 06:28 AM	#15
attackrott XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Springfield, MO Posts: 382	sjp2452 are you LO or does MN ccw allow you to carry in a church. I carry any were that I can but unfortunately MO law does not allow you to carry in a house of worship (church, temple, etc) unless you are LO. I guess I could just carry anyway but I try to obey the law at all possible. You just keep carrying. If it is concealed they wont know and in the unfortunate situation were it is needed the wackos will still get mad and raise a fuss but the out come will be a lot better. __________________ “There is only one free country for me to live.”

02-27-2006, 06:37 AM	#16
aiformula XDTalk 3K Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: sw ohio Posts: 3,116	I know there are at least 2 churches in this area where they have several designated people carrying during any service or large event. They apparently even have gone so far as to have quarterly response practice INSIDE the church. This may seem odd to some, but if I were going to that church, I personally would feel a little better. Instead I just stay home and treat my body as a temple and allow it the rest that it missed the rest of the week. __________________ Tony Obama '08... change we can bereave in. Guns are like orgasms.......you just can't have enough good ones!

02-27-2006, 01:40 PM	#19
aiformula XDTalk 3K Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: sw ohio Posts: 3,116	I just view it as "If it isn't posted, it's fair game" Not that I normally worry about carrying in church unless I'm going to a wedding/funeral. __________________ Tony Obama '08... change we can bereave in. Guns are like orgasms.......you just can't have enough good ones!

02-27-2006, 01:54 PM	#20
sjp2452 XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Land 'o Lakes, MN Posts: 1,014	I don't believe there's anything in MN law prohibiting CCW in a house of worship. There are a number of churches in MN that have been fighting the CCW law, trying to get a restriction on carry in church so that they don't have to post a sign. So far they've failed... Oh the questions I'll have for Jesus when I get to heaven... __________________ ********************************* "Who was the first person to look at a cow and say, "I think I'll squeeze these dangly things here, and drink whatever comes out?"

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