AOW and wallet holster's

[mbpe912]

Ok I read ATF rule on AOW's and holster wallets. I think I understand it now. IF it makes it look like a wallet and it can be fired without removing it from the holster than it becomes a AOW and must me treated like a NFA weapon requiring a tax stamp?

Am I wrong right?? Please explain it to me.

[cooks128]

if it covers the slide it's an AOW, if the slide is fully exsposed it's not an AOW. There's a guy on ebay, Ruger LCP CCW Brown Leather Holster Wallet - eBay (item 290375846446 end time Dec-06-09 18:36:26 PST) that makes these and I've seen leather ones at gun shows. Again, becuase the slide is exsposed it's not an AOW.

[sourpatch45]

yup that is correct, pretty much any gun that doesnt look like a gun is an AOW like cane guns and like you said the wallet guns that can be fired with the wallet holster on, breifcase guns, ect.

now if you have to remove it from the holster to fire it then its ok

[sourpatch45]

Originally Posted by cooks128

if it covers the slide it's an AOW, if the slide is fully exsposed it's not an AOW. There's a guy on ebay, Ruger LCP CCW Brown Leather Holster Wallet - eBay (item 290375846446 end time Dec-06-09 18:36:26 PST) that makes these and I've seen leather ones at gun shows. Again, becuase the slide is exsposed it's not an AOW.

i wouldnt trust that IMO without a ATF letter, one little hole just doesnt seem like enough but i could easily be wrong and i hope i am, i just havent seen it explained like you have.

do you have any links to back that up? im not saying its untrue i just want to know for sure. i dont like taking some guys word when it comes to NFA or other gun laws. i like to actually see the law so please dont take offence

[cooks128]

I'm at work at the moment but will dig out the information I myself researched the subject when I looked at one at the local show after my interst was peaked. The dealer that makes and sells them at the show locally had his ATF approval letter with him. I didn't buy one at the time but he indicated a copy of the ATF letter would be provided if I decided to purchase one to offer me peace of mind that it was not an AOW. He was selling his for around 50.00 and I passed becuase of the ebay seller selling for 30.00. Again...I'll see if I can't dig out the info this weekend.

And no offence taken patch...NFA laws are confusing as hell...I'm currenlty waiting on two stamps of my own and about to send an app out for a third stamp in the January.

[mbpe912]

Sourpatch when I read the rules that was a PDF on the ATF website it just talked about the two things. Makes it look like a wallet and can be fired from the holster. I would love to see the letter on the above holster that Cooks talks about.

[cooks128]

Originally Posted by mbpe912

Sourpatch when I read the rules that was a PDF on the ATF website it just talked about the two things. Makes it look like a wallet and can be fired from the holster. I would love to see the letter on the above holster that Cooks talks about.

Again, I don't have the letter becuase I didn't buy it. Becuase the gun is not fully enclosed, the slide is not covered it's not considered an AOW. I'm going to email the ebay seller and ask if I were to buy from him (not the same dealer at the local gun shows) if can he provided documentation before the sale and or an ATF letter becuase I do want to purchase one.

[mbpe912]

I want to trust your word for it but from what I read on the ATF website it listed what I said above.

Originally Posted by cooks128

Again, I don't have the letter becuase I didn't buy it. Becuase the gun is not fully enclosed, the slide is not covered it's not considered an AOW. I'm going to email the ebay seller and ask if I were to buy from him (not the same dealer at the local gun shows) if can he provided documentation before the sale and or an ATF letter becuase I do want to purchase one.

[cooks128]

Originally Posted by mbpe912

I want to trust your word for it but from what I read on the ATF website it listed what I said above.

When it comes to ATF and NFA items...don't trust anyone's word...only the ATF Letter. I've seen the local guys ATF at the show personally...if not...I would be apprhensive as well.

I'm emailing the Ebay seller in the morning.

[cooks128]

The section in Bold and In red:



DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
Washington, DC 20226

E:CE:F:TE:RLB
3311

MAR 13 1996

[Name]
[Address]

Dear :

This is in response to your letter of recent date to the Bureau of
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF). In your letter, you request
information regarding the legality of several wallet type holsters
which you submitted of our examination.

As defined in 26 U.S.C. section 5845(e) of the National Firearms
Act (NFA), the term "any other weapon" includes certain weapons
capable of being concealed on the person. It is unlawful to make,
possess or transfer such weapons which are not registered in
accordance with NFA controls. Further, a maker of such firearms
who has not paid the appropriate special (occupational) tax is
liable for $200 making tax for each weapon produced and $5 for each
weapon transferred.

ATF has previously determined that firearms installed in various
types of wallets, briefcases, canes, etc. may be NFA firearms as
defined. The submitted samples are rectangular leather cases,
which measure approximately 5 1/2 inches in length and 2 3/4 inches
in height. They are designed to hold an American Derringer firearm
(Model DA 3 in a fixed position with openings in the leather so
that the derringer can be operated and fired while it is in the
case. When the derringer is installed in the case, the weapon has
the exterior appearance to other "wallet guns" which have
previously been determined to be NFA firearms.

- 2 -

ATF has previously determined that an American Derringer, Model DA
38, in and of itself, is a firearm subject to the provisions of the
GCA and is not a firearm subject to the NFA controls. The leather
wallet by itself is not subject to control as a firearm. However,
we have also determined that any person who might possess such a
derringer in combination with the wallet holster would be in
possession of a firearm subject to the purview of the NFA.

Any person who possess the combination would be in possession of a
firearm as defined in 26 U.S.C. section 5845(a)(5) of the NFA.
Such firearm is subject to the tax imposed under section 5821, and
the making provisions of section 5822 of the act.

Should the wallet holsters, as provided, be sold or transferred
separately from the derringers, we strongly recommend that you
advise customers regarding the status of these items.

If you would like to submit a redesigned or modified holster that
you believe would not be subject to the NFA when held in
combination with an American Derringer firearm, we will be happy to
examine it and provide you with the results. We would suggest that
the redesigned sample no longer resemble a wallet and the
modification should include cutting the top rear of the wallet,
thereby exposing the entire back strap and trigger guard area of
the inserted derringer. The cuts should follow the exact contour
of the frame of the pistol and not overlap to risk a disguised
appearance.

The samples which you submitted for our examination are being
returned to you under separate cover.

- 3 -


We trust the foregoing has been responsive to your inquiry. If you
have further questions concerning this matter, please contact us.


Sincerely yours,

[signed]
Edward M. Owen, Jr.
Chief, Firearms Technology Branch