Tankless Water Heater

[bd1]

Looks like I'm going to be replacing my water heater soon. Does anyone have any experience with these tankless water heaters? Looks like initial install will be about 2x the cost of replacing my traditional tank type electric heater. But the operating cost in the long run might offset the initial cost. I can do propane or electric. I think I'd prefer propane, they seem to be more efficient.

From what I've seen I can get a Bosch tankless LP unit for about $500 that will take care of my hot water needs. A tank style electric heater will be $300...so what the hay?

Surely if these things perform as well as they say they do I can recoup the cost difference in a couple of years....?

And have plenty of hot water....?

Anybody use one?

bd

[bd1]

Just in case anyone else is interested.

And I put the original post in the wrong forum.......

Here is a reply from tec

Ahhhh, something I know about. I am a certified installer for Rinnai tankless water heaters, the big brother of the Bosch units. These things are awesome. Yes, the initiall install and material cost is greater then a typical gas or electric tanked heater. BUT, you can recoup the money in about 2-3 years , depending on your gas costs. You can save a boatload of money by having the tankless heater installed on the inside of an exterior wall, this reduces the amount of material for the extended flue run. Depending on your location, you can even get models that mount on the exterior of your house, these are cheaper yet and do not add any heat to the inside of your house.

Bear in mind, these are not instant heat units. Many people think that with these units you turn on the hot faucet and will have instant heat. nope. These are CONTINUOUS heat units. However long it takes for the hot to get to your faucet NOW is the same amount of time it will take a thankless unit. But these will provide constant hot water, whereas a tanked water heater will run out after a given amount.

Bear in mind, how many people in the house? If you have a couple of showers going at the same time, you may have the same problems as a tanked heater. Some house's have two tankless heaters hooked up in series to reduce the chance of cold water if you have many "same time" users.

On the Rinnai units, you can even get digital t-stats that are mounted next to the faucet that are connected to the tankless heater. You want a shower with the temp at 108 exactly, you got it. Got a kid you don't want burned, set the max temp for 98. Have two digital t-stats, yip. Have one next to your kitchen sink, you AND the dishwasher will have the desired temp, when the demand for hot water stops at that outlet source, the tankless heater computer controlled brain will automatically set the temp back to the normal (whatever you have it set for at the tank).

My tank is only 6 years old, I figure in about 3-4 years I will install one for myself. At about ten years on a tanked water heater the efficiency goes down hill big time, what with the rust and calcium buildup on the bottom of the tank. Your heater runs more, longer to get the heat PAST the rust and calcium and to the water.

If you have half a brain and can sweat copper, and screw black iron together, you can do it yourself and save about an equal amount of the labor to install.

I charge for labor the same cost as the material.

The European countries have used these for YEARS. |They are proven. The USA's stupid dependence on the old tanked water heaters is sad, these things haven't changed any in the last 50 to 75 years. let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks again, tec


bd

[hobocircus]

how much do they cost?

[Son of Norway]

I love the idea and will be looking real close at these units when it's time to replace my tank heater.

[bd1]

Originally Posted by hobocircus

how much do they cost?

$250 +/- up to $1000 depending on your hot water demand from the info I've gathered.

Some are for a single location only, like one bathroom or only the laundry.
Others are for an entire house.

Just like anything else, you can spend about all you want to.

bd

[Snake-eater 1]

I spent some time visiting a family in Germany. Three bedroom apartment, bathroom, kitchen. Always plenty of hot water, they used a tankless hot water heater. Oh, did I mention, this was in 1983!!

The main thing I have heard about these units is that they cannot supply the entire home with everything running at one time. Maybe a shower and kitchen sink together, something like that. But not three showers, two sinks, and the dishwasher. Like anything else, do your homework.

[tec]

Originally Posted by Snake-eater 1

I
The main thing I have heard about these units is that they cannot supply the entire home with everything running at one time. Maybe a shower and kitchen sink together, something like that. But not three showers, two sinks, and the dishwasher. Like anything else, do your homework.

As mentioned, this is correct, you just have to do your homework. If you have a large demand for all or even most oof the hot water faucets going at once, then you can probably afford the coin to install two of them. Quite easy to do. My buddy installed 5 of them in series for a large italian restaurant. They never run out of hot water.


goto the following site for dealers, rebates, info: http://www.foreverhotwater.com/


The Rinnai Continuum tankless hot water system is revolutionizing the way modern homes meet their hot water needs....... Rinnai Continuum’s small central heating unit is up to 50 percent more energy efficient than a traditional natural gas water heater and is up to 70 percent more efficient than an electric water heater.
The Rinnai Continuum tankless system is a multiple point of use, gas- fired water heater that only heats water when it senses a demand from an open water source. Unlike antiquated water tanks that constantly store and reheat water, the Continuum system shuts off automatically when the water source tap is closed, providing its users with significant energy cost savings. Whereas 40-gallon tanks require 16 sq. ft. of floor space and usually last around 10 years, Rinnai Continuum is a compact wall mounted unit with a life expectancy of 25 years. Because the Continuum does not require a tank, the risk of tank-type water heater ruptures is eliminated.

Rinnai Continuum can be set to operate at exact user-specifiable temperatures via the digital and easy-to-use control pad placed in multiple locations of a home. This is an extremely important feature in households with small children and elderly individuals to help prevent scalding accidents.

Rinnai Continuum provides never-ending hot water to households 24 hours a day at the rate of up to 8.5 gallons per minute. This unique feature allows homeowners the luxury of using multiple hot water sources at once without any loss of temperature consistency. Because Rinnai Continuum is not limited by capacity, as are typical 50 and 75 gallon tanks, today’s 70+ gallon bathtubs can be filled again and again without penalizing the other hot water needs in the home. Homes with a Rinnai Continuum can run a washing machine, dishwasher and shower simultaneously without worrying about hot water running out at any source.

Rinnai Continuum also offers flexibility in its wall-mounted locations. Should the user prefer to mount the unit indoors, it safely uses no indoor make-up air and vents directly to the atmosphere. However, a unique advantage of Rinnai Continuum is its ability to be mounted on the exterior of a house, completely removing a combustible device from the home and freeing up valuable floor-space. Additionally, the unit can be mounted in a recessed box, flush-mounted and painted or textured to match the external façade.

[Plinkomatic]

I got one and love it. Bigtime

Plusses:
a. Energy Savings (alot)
b. Rebate from Gas Company
c. No standing water
d. Never running out of hot water

Cons:
a. Pressure (get the big one if you are going to use more than one appliance at a time, ie Shower+dish Washer, Sink + Washing Machine, etc.)
b. Have to expand exhaust (The heat it generates is WAY more than a standard water heater so you have to increase your exhaust, therefore cut a bigger hole in roof, but use good flashing and sealer and you'll be fine).

I love it. Works perfect, water is far cleaner, clearer, hotter and safer.

Mine all in was $900, which was the unit ($500), the new exhaust, roof work, install labor, a few parts, AND the cost to make a nice bit of storage space (wood, paint, etc.) reclaiming the space that the old tank took.
I've had it a little over a year and between my rebate from the city ($200) and my monthly energy savings, in 2 more months it will have paid for itself.

[east_stingray]

I know that gas is generally more efficient at heating, but might I suggest that you look at the electric models simply because gas is expensive nowadays and it won't ever get any cheaper. Ever. It's going to continue going up in your lifetime. So will electricity, but most of our coal doesn't come from the middle east.

[tec]

Originally Posted by Plinkomatic

Ib. Have to expand exhaust (The heat it generates is WAY more than a standard water heater so you have to increase your exhaust, therefore cut a bigger hole in roof, but use good flashing and sealer and you'll be fine).

This is why it's important to vent it asap, ie. , thru a wall. Mount it on the inside of an exterior wall, boom, your right there dumping the exhaust outside. Or, mount the whole unit outside, depending on your location.



I've had it a little over a year and between my rebate from the city ($200) and my monthly energy savings, in 2 more months it will have paid for itself.


This is what I am talking about...............

Only a fool idiot would replace a water tank with another water tank.