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CCW Holders Kill 7 Cops and 44 Others...

This is a discussion on CCW Holders Kill 7 Cops and 44 Others... within the XDTalk Chatter Box forums, part of the XD Talk category; How many cops have killed wrongfully? How many cops have kicked in the door to the wrong house. How many cops have shot OTHER cops? ...

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Old 07-20-2009, 06:08 PM   #11
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How many cops have killed wrongfully?

How many cops have kicked in the door to the wrong house.

How many cops have shot OTHER cops? (I know of one murder/suicide in Chicago)

The list can go on and on....
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Old 07-20-2009, 06:08 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForTehNguyen View Post
so how many people were shot by non CHL over the same 2 years. Then we can get non CHL population and CHL population, guess who is still far more law abiding




How many people that would have killed someone were killed by ccw holders, that the net lives saved or lost question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ID_ford_boy View Post
I'll take the CHL population for $1000, Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiberalGunOwner View Post
The souces for the study are located at the end of each individual they profile.

Look At the end of this one:

Concealed Handgun Permit Holder
: Richard Poplawski

Date
: April 4, 2009

Total Killed
: 3

Total Wounded
: 1

Law Enforcement Officers Killed
: 3

Law Enforcement Officers Wounded
: 1

Circumstances
: On April 4, 2009, white supremacist Richard Poplawski allegedly shot and
killed police officers Stephen Mayhle, Paul Sciullo, and Eric Kelly while injuring another.
Poplawski used an AK-47 assault rifle and a pistol in the attack. He had a concealed
handgun permit despite a former girlfriend having obtained a protection-from-abuse order
against him. Poplawski’s mother told police that he had been “stockpiling guns and
ammunition…because he believed that as a result of the economic collapse, the police were
no longer able to protect society.” She additionally stated that “her son ‘only liked police
when they were not curtailing his constitutional rights, which he was determined to
protect.’”
7
Poplawski was charged with three counts of criminal homicide and one count of aggravated
assault. He has pled not guilty. Prosecutors are seeking the death penalty.

Source: “Poplawski bought guns through shop in Wilkinsburg,”
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, April 7, 2009; Who
is Richard Poplawski? Friends, Family Talk About Pittsburgh Suspect in Police Officers’ Triple-Killing,”

ThePittsburghChannel.com, April 6, 2009; “Pittsburgh police shooting arraigned by computer,” Associated
He used an AK47, I don't think the CCW allowed for anything, it would have happened irregardless. He had a rifle, the CCW didn't allow for these circumstances to occur, so its existence has nothing to do with the shooting. Basically that he was a ccw holder is erroneous entirely.
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Old 07-20-2009, 06:21 PM   #13
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I read through that entire thing (yes I'm bored and have nothing better to do than read propaganda), curious about the nature of the offenses they'd listed. Quite a few were cases where the person shot in self-defense but were charged for it, including a couple of those where police officers were killed. A lot of the people in that study who had CCL's shouldn't have been issued one or should have had it revoked. Very few of the shootings had anything directly to do with the person having a CCL; that is, the shooting wouldn't have happened if the person hadn't been issued a license - but who's to say they wouldn't have been carrying a weapon (illegally) anyway?

Whatever the folks who wrote this were trying to prove, they failed. It's a miniscule percentage of the number of shootings in this country and there doesn't seem to be any common thread linking all of the incidents other than the shooter had a CCL. I doubt that matters though; anyone who already has their mind made up that "guns are evil" doesn't need to read or understand the headline, and I doubt that anyone on this forum is going to give it much attention at all.
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Old 07-20-2009, 06:37 PM   #14
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Way to post a complete BS article. I just read through and it had references to the crime in Mexico attributed to guns from the US if you actually read the ATF findings and do the math roughly 13% +/- 2% are from the USA. And thats guns, I can pretty [much guarantee the grenades aren't from the USA, nor are the rpgs. And even then a large portion of those were from the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT in issues M16s given to the military, in the thousands of soldiers that go UA over there more than half took their weapons with them.

When I read their links and sources, its complete crap. Congrats on posting pure BS, its lower quality than the crap the NRA posts. (saying that states with CCW have a lower crime rate proves CCW is a good thing is BS, it should be rate of change in crime rate in states that do and states that don't, but those numbers aren't as dramatic so they don't post them)
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Old 07-20-2009, 06:38 PM   #15
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all right i did some calcs using FBI data:
Table 20 - Crime in the United States 2007

2007 Firearm specific murders: 10086 (do the sum of the firearms column in the above table)
only 2008 prelim numbers are out but they stated a 4.4% decline in murders so you can estimate 2008 Firearm specific murders as: 10086*.956 = 9642.22 firearm murders
4.4% decline is stated in Table 3: Download Spreadsheets

Since study was done from May 07 to April 09 use half of 07s murders + all of 08s + estimate half of 09 using half of 08s murders:
5043 + 9643 + 4821 = 18907 for all firearm murders

so the total of CHL murders in May 07 to April 09 stated in the study divided by all firearm murders in the same timeframe:
51/18907 = .002697% of all firearm murders were CHL
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Last edited by ForTehNguyen; 07-20-2009 at 06:42 PM.
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Old 07-20-2009, 06:40 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForTehNguyen View Post
all right i did some calcs using FBI data:
Table 20 - Crime in the United States 2007

2007 Firearm specific murders: 10086 (do the sum of the firearms column in the above table)
only 2008 prelim numbers are out but they stated a 4.4% decline in murders so you can estimate 2008 Firearm specific murders as: 10096*.956 = 9642.22 firearm murders
4.4% decline is stated in Table 3: Download Spreadsheets

Since study was done from May 07 to April 09 use half of 07s murders + all of 08s + estimate half of 09 using half of 08s murders:
5043 + 9643 + 4821 = 18907 for all firearm murders

so the total of CHL murders in May 07 to April 09 divided by all firearm murders in the same timeframe:
51/18907 = .002697% of all firearm murders were CHL
and 3 of thsoe were with an ak47... wonder how many more used rifles/full autos/ shotguns and so on... come on give me the numbers.
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Old 07-20-2009, 06:43 PM   #17
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Perhaps they should look at how many were shot by repeat offenders who were released again. Or how about non-CHL holders? Yea, of course... they'll never tell you that.
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Old 07-20-2009, 06:44 PM   #18
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a lot of those murders in the 51 were done with rifles too, so I dunno what CHL has to do with it. The alabama shooting was 11 of the 51, 20% basically
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Old 07-20-2009, 06:55 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiberalGunOwner View Post
Take a look at this:

Nashville - Nashville Scene - Pith in the Wind - Gun Permit Holders Have Killed Seven Cops, 44 Others in Only the Past Two Years

The study comes from this lobbying group: Violence Policy Center

They claim that 7 police officers and 44 citizens have been killed by CCW permit holders in the last 2 years.

Here is a copy of the actual study: http://vpc.org/studies/ccw2009.pdf

Most of you know that I am no fan of the NRA. I am curious as to how they will handle this.

What do you think?
That the other ten thousand or so handgun related murders of police officers and others over the last 2 years were not committed by CHL holders.

I'll bet CHL holders were involved in at least .05% of the highway fatalities, so they must be vehicular murderers, also.
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Old 07-20-2009, 07:38 PM   #20
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they were psycho's more importantly than permit holders. but i guess this story is something i should pay attention to. i have a CC permit, i guess that means i will kill a cop soon??
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