This has got to stop!

[afmo]

Originally Posted by mirage2521

eff Darwin, I don't want to be in the range when they do it.

The classes cost a little bit of money, and completion of the class will not stop the would be suicide, but it might make it a little more difficult to do it in a gun store/range so maybe he would go look for an easier route that doesnt include signing up for, paying for, and completing a class. Time for him to think about suicide and it makes other ways of commiting suicide more attractive.. I dont care if they commit suicide. I do care the do it in a gun range where I might be with a freakin rented gun !

if its not going to fix the problem at hand, then why bother?

this is no different than the restrictions that the left try and put on us. They try and make us jump through hoops that won't end up fixing a problem.

No different here. If someone's going to kill themselves, they're going to do it, no matter what. All you're gonna do is turn even more people off to shooting as a sport and hobby and give the gun grabbers more ammo to use against us (See, even gun supporters realize this is a problem! we must do even more!!)

i say screw em. Let em blow their brains out for all I care. So long as they don't take anyone out with em, i don't care how they do it.

[mirage2521]

Originally Posted by afmo

if its not going to fix the problem at hand, then why bother?

this is no different than the restrictions that the left try and put on us. They try and make us jump through hoops that won't end up fixing a problem.

No different here. If someone's going to kill themselves, they're going to do it, no matter what. All you're gonna do is turn even more people off to shooting as a sport and hobby and give the gun grabbers more ammo to use against us (See, even gun supporters realize this is a problem! we must do even more!!)

i say screw em. Let em blow their brains out for all I care. So long as they don't take anyone out with em, i don't care how they do it.

you dont care they do it at a gun range standing next to you? I sure as hell do. I dont care if they kill themselves. I would simple rather they do it away from gun ranges. Requiring a safety class prior to renting a gun is simply good sense. How can you argue that it isnt. Basic gun safety required prior to renting a gun for the first time, seems like a no brainer

[Tattooed Bard]

Originally Posted by afmo

if its not going to fix the problem at hand, then why bother?

this is no different than the restrictions that the left try and put on us. They try and make us jump through hoops that won't end up fixing a problem.

No different here. If someone's going to kill themselves, they're going to do it, no matter what. All you're gonna do is turn even more people off to shooting as a sport and hobby and give the gun grabbers more ammo to use against us (See, even gun supporters realize this is a problem! we must do even more!!)

i say screw em. Let em blow their brains out for all I care. So long as they don't take anyone out with em, i don't care how they do it.

Ever had someone kill themselves in front of you? Its a pretty damn traumatic event whether you know them or not. You may be hardened and callous enough that it wont affect you but what about your wife or girlfriend if she was there with you or your children?

[afmo]

Originally Posted by mirage2521

you dont care they do it at a gun range standing next to you? I sure as hell do. I dont care if they kill themselves. I would simple rather they do it away from gun ranges. Requiring a safety class prior to renting a gun is simply good sense. How can you argue that it isnt. Basic gun safety required prior to renting a gun for the first time, seems like a no brainer

Whats it matter where the do it? The only difference is i'd rather not see someone spray gray matter all over the ground, but then again, I don't go to indoor ranges where they rent guns anyway. I'd guess that your odds are about the same of seeing someone kill themselves in some other fashion as they are of seeing someone kill themselves at the range.

And the only problem i have with the class is that its being proposed in response to gun range suicides. Its obvious that the classes aren't going to prevent gun range suicides so why bother?

Here in california, in order to curb some of this stuff, they instituted teh "Handgun safety certificate." Its an extra fee, extra test, extra study material, and you know how much its helped? Not one iota. Why? because you cannot stop people from doing what they are going to do. In the end it costs me an extra 25 dollars every 5 years to buy handguns, and i have to take a test a moron could pass, and in the end its nothing but feel-good bulls**t designed to make gun owners go through even more hoops because people are complete and total idiots. I say take the warning labels off of everything and let it sort itself out.

[Jarsh]

Originally Posted by afmo

I say take the warning labels off of everything and let it sort itself out.

I have to agree with this.

[mirage2521]

Originally Posted by afmo

And the only problem i have with the class is that its being proposed in response to gun range suicides. Its obvious that the classes aren't going to prevent gun range suicides so why bother?

.

That's where we disagree.

1. I agree with requiring some basic required training.
2. I want to know that they guy standing next to me has held a gun before and is not going to kill me by accident.
3. Putting a minor obstacle between a suicide and a method of suicide makes him consider other methods. Gun range suicides endanger others, men women and kids. That's why bother.

[afmo]

Originally Posted by mirage2521

That's where we disagree.

1. I agree with requiring some basic required training.
2. I want to know that they guy standing next to me has held a gun before and is not going to kill me by accident.
3. Putting a minor obstacle between a suicide and a method of suicide makes him consider other methods. Gun range suicides endanger others, men women and kids. That's why bother.

This is the problem. We're into the realm of leftist tactics. "But if it saves just one life!! ZOMG ITS WORTH IT!!!!"

People are going to do what they're going to do and creating more obstacles to gun ownership isn't going to change that.

And what if the other method is getting in his car and putting it into oncoming traffic? What if the other method is suicide by cop? What if the other method is that he snaps and kills a bunch of other people first? what if what if what if what if.... we can sit here and play the game all day long, but in the end you're just speculating.

[Jarsh]

Originally Posted by mirage2521

That's where we disagree.

1. I agree with requiring some basic required training.
2. I want to know that they guy standing next to me has held a gun before and is not going to kill me by accident.
3. Putting a minor obstacle between a suicide and a method of suicide makes him consider other methods. Gun range suicides endanger others, men women and kids. That's why bother.

What's to stop this person from killing themselves while shooting live-fire practice during the class? You don't necessarily know if the person standing next to you in the class has held a firearm or not, regardless of intent.

As I was saying, a good way to prevent this is with hard funds. You require a $500 deposit for the class with a $400 refund. And to rent guns, require a $600 deposit with a full refund upon return of the firearm. This wouldn't discourage new shooters because if their intent is to buy, then 600$ isn't a problem. Would be suicide cases may not want to put down all that money (even if they don't care), they may not have it.

[Carnivorous]

Originally Posted by Tard

Yep, it's happening a little more often lately.

Something about the highest unemployment in 26 years and a totally bleak view of our over-regulated and triple-taxed future.

The urban ranges in the greater Seattle, WA area won't rent you a gun unless you already have one OR someone comes with you (that 2nd one, I dunno if that's effective). The more rural places just toss you the gun and say "go!".

What IS the suicide rate these days? Sure seems hard to find any relevant, current information on that stuff. Want to know for 2006? No problem.

During the Great Depression the suicide rate increased from 14 per 100,000 to 17 per 100,000. (Source) Probably a similar increase now.

(The delay in publishing death data is probably logistical, as it takes time to compile all of that information accurately...)

[dkbikes4life4130]

Also you have to remember that these people did leave their house, where they probably did have knives, drano, etc, and got in their car and drove to the gun range (without running head on into a truck) to purposely use a gun to commit suicide. I also believe that some of these people may just be in a hard time and if something can be done to postpone what they are planning, they may not want to kill themselves 2 weeks from now.

As far as it giving us a bad name, it does. The anti-gun people link us with these suicidle people. Like it or not. It doesnt make me weak or anything to see that these do affect us. Its not the suicide itself, its the fact that they do it at the gun range that makes the news. This stirs the anti-gunners. I have spoken with several people on this so I know that they use this stuff.