Confusing accuracy issue

[Delija]

I presently own four pistols (listed in my signature).


Of the four the ..380 is far and away the least accurate. Check that....it is the only gun that is not a tack driver. Far from it. Very far.

The gun is a "mini-1911 Colt clone" (I know Colt made a .380 of similar dimensions, but I have never seen one)- obvious differences being a rib along the top of the slide (a Llama cosmetic thing) and an external extractor. 3.75 inch barrel (longer than my XD Sub). The sight radius is almost identical to that of the XD Sub. Right about six inches.

The bushing to slide fit is snug, not tight. No play, just easily turned and removed by hand. No wobble in any position. No need for a bushing wrench. The bushing to barrel fit seems to be just right. The slide to frame fit is also more "snug" than loose. No rattle. (I once had a 1911 platform pistol in 9mm that did rattle, and it was accurate enough).

In battery, the barrel locks up nicely. There is no play/movement at all when putting pressure on the barrel hood through the ejection port. The muzzle end of the barrel also has no discernible play when in battery - the gun feels very solid in battery in all respects.

The seller told me the gun was bought new (by his dad) in 1968 and had hardly any rounds at all through it. Less than 100 IIRC. That seems about right judging by appearance. The finish is like new.

The internals all seem to be in "like new" condition. I am reluctant to take the gun down beyond a field strip since some of the parts are so small (and not available to be replaced). But I can't imagine even if I took it apart completely what I could possibly find that would affect accuracy.

The extractor is an external setup like a Hi-Power or the new Kimbers and S&W 1911s.

The extractors "claw" is sharp enough to make me believe the gun has seen very few rounds through it despite it's being almost 40 years old. Shows no wear at all.

Shooting from a makeshift rest (piled up gun rugs), with my XD9 Sub, at 8 yards I can put virtually every shot into the "x" ring of a three inch "Shoot 'N See" stick on. Same with my .45. With my .22 Ruger, at 8 yards it's hard to miss a gnats left ass cheek. (Or right...depending on which you aim for). LOL

But with this little Llama, the best I can do is just keep the shots on the paper (8.5x11 inch computer paper). At 8 yards...that's pretty disappointing.

So....any thoughts on what could make a gun so inherently inaccurate?

I know it's not me. I can't see how it could be the ammo. I've tried several brands.

All this is too bad. The gun has been 100% reliable...even with hollow points and in a gun that old, I didn't really expect that to be the case.

I am just stumped. Seems like a modern bullet going through a straight rifled barrel should go straight. Right? (rifling looks good too).

The trigger is a bit heavy, but it is very crisp and has zero creep. The trigger is not a culprit in the accuracy department. It could be better (lighter) but it's no an issue shooting from a rest IMO.

It really is such a pretty gun. What can I do to get her to shoot straight?
Anything? (I can't see putting serious money into this piece since it will eventually crap out and parts are no longer available).




TIA

Pax,
D.

[Majk]

Wow that's surprising. I have a bersa .380 and at eight yards can come close to what you said. Not sure I can help with the problem. Just surprised your .380 is that inaccurate.

[ichy_trigger]

It could be the barrel crown is bad if everything else is good. Normaly it would be the barrel lockup but if you say thats consistent then I would have to think its a bad bore or crown. Have a smith true it up and see if that does anything for it.

The colt .380 was called a Mustang if im not mistaken. My buddy had one with a serial number of 380. I tried like hell to buy it from him but he wouldnt sell.

[one-eyed-fatman]

It really is such a pretty gun. What can I do to get her to shoot straight?
Anything? (I can't see putting serious money into this piece since it will eventually crap out and parts are no longer available).

I think you just answered your own question. NOTHING.

[Delija]

Originally Posted by ichy_trigger

Normaly it would be the barrel lockup but if you say thats consistent then I would have to think its a bad bore or crown. Have a smith true it up and see if that does anything for it.

The colt .380 was called a Mustang if im not mistaken. My buddy had one with a serial number of 380. I tried like hell to buy it from him but he wouldnt sell.

After writing the post, I re-checked and found that I was wrong about the barrel lockup. There's (barely) perceptible movement when pressing the barrel hood through the ejection port. That can be the culprit? I'm guessing it's maybe a hundredth of an inch (don't know how to measure something like that). The muzzle/bushing fit is nice and snug.

The gun seems to have no wear, so if that's the problem, I guess I'm just stuck.

The Colt Mustang....yeah. I would love to get my hands on one of those. For concealed carry, that mini-1911 platform seems perfect. Slim, reliable, and a better trigger than anything else regardless of size.

Originally Posted by one-eyed-fatman

I think you just answered your own question. NOTHING.

Yeah, seems to be the case. .

At least I'll have gotten my money's worth out of it just because I like carrying it and have on many occasions when I would have not carried at all but for the ease of carrying that little guy.

All the excitement here about the new XD45 ACP, but as much as I would like one (I'd like one of everything ), for carry I'd rather have a single stack that's easier to conceal.
Guess that's just me.

Minaggen,
D.

[So Flo]

Delija,
Have you had a gunsmith give it a look-see? For less than $50 I bet you could have someone check it out and possibly make a few small adjustments.

It is a great looking little gun, and as you said, for concealed carry, it looks like it fits the bill perfectly.

[Brickboy240]

I really have my doubts about the "pressing down on the barrel through the ejection port hole" as a test for whether or not a 1911 is going to be accurate. My Series 70 Combat Commander and my 1950s Sistema Colt both have a little play in this area and both have a slight shake in the slide to frame area and both are very accurate at 15yds or less. There is literally no difference in 15yd groups in my barely used Sig 220 and these two 1911s. I am not sure if that is a good test to a 1911-styled pistol's accuracy. I was also told by a few very 1911 savvy smiths that that test is sort of an old wive's tale and not valid.

I know those little Llamas are neat...feel good in the hand and carry well, but they're known for being very accurate or long life high quality guns. I am NOT putting your gun down, don't get me wrong. I had one of those a very long time ago and got rid of it, because I could shoot my 9mm cheaper, it was more powerful and the thing was just not very accurate.

Also, I am not sure if the 380 is known for being a very accurate pistol round. Have you slugged the bore, to check its dimensions? Some makers of small autos have been known to make 380 barrels of a slightly larger diameter (Russian Makarovs in 380 are notoriously inaccurate because of this, while the 9x18mm Maks are very accurate).

A larger diameter bore would definately give you accuracy problems, even if the thing locks up nice and tight and has a good bore. I'd give that a look before tearing into the pistol. Slugging the bore is less invasive and probably less taxing on your nerves.

I always thought that Llama 380/1911 design was a good idea, but just not executed to the best it COULD be (much like the Ruger Mini-14).

- Brickboy240

[Captain Ray]

We had this discussion some months back I thought.. I can't remember who brought the subject up.. but If I recall correctly the general consensus of the Llama was that it is fun, pretty, but not the most dependable pistol.

I must say that it is a handsome looking piece Delija.. I would hold on to it for no other reason than that.. if it's not the most accurate pistol in your collection.. so what.. your XD will serve you just fine in that regard. You can keep the llama just cause it's pretty!

Raymond

[SLCDave]

The Colt IS called the Mustang. My uncle owns one.

Have you had other people shoot it? I'm not knocking your abilities, but take it to one of those USDPA or whatever they are called shoots, and get a couple of other guys to shoot it and see how they do. Never hurts to get it in the hands of a few other shooters to test it, and it will only cost you the price of ammo.

For that matter, have you tried different brands of ammo?

I also thought about the barrel crown. I'd find a reputable 1911 smith and have them give it a good look to see if they can find your gremlin.

[Delija]

Originally Posted by SLCDave

Have you had other people shoot it?

For that matter, have you tried different brands of ammo?

.

I have had a couple of people shoot it. The feedback I got was it has a heavy trigger. Which it does for a 1911 platform gun, but it is very crisp and no creep at all. I've shot it from a rest (I mentioned) that gives me incredible accuracy with my other pistols.

I have shot a few different brands. UMC, WWB, American Eagle, and some Gold Dots (expensive).

Brickboy's comment on the "give" when pressing the barrel hood is interesting.

And Ray and SoFlo are ultimately right no matter what. The gun is reliable and pretty and conceals easily, and feels great in my hands, so I'll just keep it and shoot it until it dies. After all, it only cost me $150 (with no sales tax).

Frieden,
D