Mall Shooting Victim was Carrying

[sturmruger]

Frog that is a good point!! I just pray to God I don't ever need any of this training.

[sjp2452]

Originally Posted by Ouch!

Q.- In what situations is the use of force against another person 'legally justified'?

A.- The law allows the use of appropriate force in FOUR circumstances when facts support its use. They are:

1. Self-defense
2. Defense of another person
3. Prevention of certain crimes
4. In law enforcement.

Deadly force can be used to stop GBI of another, not just in self defense

Depends on the state. MN law appears to make provision for 3rd party, but the law is new and has not been tested in court. If this happened in the Mall of America in Minneapolis, the legally armed civilian that drew a weapon would face a VERY uncertain future. That's just the reality.

I agree wholeheartedly with what somebody said before--you have to contemplate the whole thing and firmly make up your mind about what you would do. If you had read on, you would have seen in a later post of mine that my mind is now made up--shooting would have been the right thing, regardless of the consequences.

[sjp2452]

Originally Posted by crofrog

Could I live with myself if I took action and got put in jail for 15 years, effectively abandoning my wife & children because I didn't want to feel guilty for not doing something, forcing THEM to pay the price for me not feeling guilty?

Do you have kids?

Rehearse the situation all you want. Those of us who have other lives dependent on us being around have some costs to count after the mental/tactical training is done.

[daybreak]

Howdy,

A few thoughts. If the perp was in the mall brandishing the weapon, and not shooting, then of course that causes one to stop and ponder the ramifications of your actions.

Because the perp was firing the weapon, then this changes the scenario to "in defense, in defense of others"

Virginia = it's clear here. shoot him.

For others here that are making comments about "I don't know what to do". Please make your mindset up, since you are carrying, then be prepared to do what it takes all the way around. Or are you carrying to show off some fancy nickel plated piece with no bullets in it? It is a grave responsibility to carry, have the skills, and understanding of the power of your sidearm.

[crofrog]

Originally Posted by sjp2452

Could I live with myself if I took action and got put in jail for 15 years, effectively abandoning my wife & children because I didn't want to feel guilty for not doing something, forcing THEM to pay the price for me not feeling guilty?

I couldn't live with myself if I could stop a lot of innocent people from dieing and did nothing. That doesn't make me better or worse than you. It just makes me, me and you, you. Please don't read more than that into it.

Do you have kids?

No.

Rehearse the situation all you want. Those of us who have other lives dependent on us being around have some costs to count after the mental/tactical training is done.

I never said you didn't. I just asked if you could live with yourself if you did nothing. It was food for thought. No more no less.

Let me say this again. In my opinion, the middle of a gun fight is no place to be thinking about what happens after the fight. Considering he has a rifle and you have a pistol, running away to cover is not a poor course of action. In fact it's probally a very wise one. The thing is if I was in a postion to save the people in the mall and I ran away. I'd feel like crap for a very long time. If I died, well sometimes you step up to the plate and strike out.

Just more food for thought.

Chris

[So Flo]

Originally Posted by sjp2452

If this happened in the Mall of America in Minneapolis, the legally armed civilian that drew a weapon would face a VERY uncertain future.

There is also the "Law of Compteting Harms" that may come in to play on something like this.

Essentially it will take into account how "bad" one's crime of carrying in an area posted as gun-free is versus the crime of the other guy shooting up the place, killing folks, and taking hostages...

My guess is that they would consider your carrying in a gun free zone as a lesser crime, thank you for a job well done and hit you with a fine or ??? then go on and convict (or bury) the other guy!

[sjp2452]

Originally Posted by crofrog

Let me say this again. In my opinion, the middle of a gun fight is no place to be thinking about what happens after the fight. Considering he has a rifle and you have a pistol, running away to cover is not a poor course of action. In fact it's probally a very wise one. The thing is if I was in a postion to save the people in the mall and I ran away. I'd feel like crap for a very long time. If I died, well sometimes you step up to the plate and strike out.

Just more food for thought.

Chris

I understand what you're saying. I'd feel like crap for a long time too if I bugged out and didn't step in. The thing that someone like me (and many others here) needs to consider is this--which is worse, me feeling really guilty for not intervening, or my wife & kids having to fend for themselves as I sit in jail for 10-15 years feeling good about myself. I made vows to my wife--not anybody in that mall. Again--in the situation in Tacoma, I believe shooting was the right move (and I've been taking this as a big learning opportunity) and if the same thing happens here in lakes country and I'm there, I believe I'll be pulling my trigger. But unless it's an absolute slam-dunk justifiable shoot there's an unthinkable decision that has to be made. Who gets the shaft--me...or my family? That there's a feast for the brain.