Mall Shooting Victim was Carrying

[XD BACKUP GUN]

Originally Posted by one-eyed-fatman

If the laws that bad in Mn why would anyone bother to carry?

Yes the law in Minnesota is vague at best about defending a 3rd person.

This guy in Washington is a hero, although he handled the situation completely wrong, he should have drawn and fired, or just kept his gun holstered.

[40SWXDSHOOTER]

It'a a good thing that The Mall of America is posted "No Guns Allowed" so some thing like this could never there.
Oh crap that's right they have had at least three shootings, and one stabbing that I know of for sure ( I was there when two of the shootings and the stabbing happened). Those happened before the law changed. Now I don't go near the place with out a gun. As per MN law they can't legaly post it anyway.

[sjp2452]

Ok so I sent the question to the guy I took the MN CCW class from--he's a former attourney, and still follows the law closely. He gave me this as the relevant MN statute:

609.065 Justifiable taking of life.
The intentional taking of the life of another is not authorized by section 609.06, except when necessary in resisting or preventing an offense which the actor reasonably believes exposes the actor or another to great bodily harm or death, or preventing the commission of a felony in the actor's place of abode.

It actually seems clear that it does authorize taking of life in defense of a third person, but he also states that it has not yet been tested in court. I wouldn't like to be the ginuea pig, but it does seem...plausible. Yelling at him to stop from a cover position before shooting would benefit you legally...if anybody could remember that you did.

You would at least have a defense that could argue any reasonable person reading the law would come to the same conclusion...

Yeah...I'm now convinced that shooting would have been the right move. I pray I'll never have to put that conviction into motion.

[ichy_trigger]

WTF is a "semiautomatic machine pistol"????? I wonder if the media could have made the guns sound any more evil
Even if it was a Tec-9 or some other innacurate piece of ****, is it any more deadly than another 9mm? Is a Glock 17 with a 30 round mag, a SEMIAUTOMATIC MACHINE PISTOL?

TBO.com > News > AP


Nov 24, 10:53 PM EST


Mall Shooting Victim Condition Upgraded

TACOMA, Wash. (AP) -- The man most seriously injured when a gunman opened fire inside a shopping mall last weekend was upgrade from critical to serious condition Thursday and is able to speak with his family, a hospital spokesman said.

Brendan McKown, 38, was shot twice in the abdomen Sunday at the Tacoma Mall. He was removed from a respirator Thanksgiving morning, said Todd Kelley, spokesman for Tacoma General Hospital. Doctors have said he may have suffered permanent paralysis.

McKown was among six people shot by a gunman who fired an assault rifle and semiautomatic machine pistol at crowds in the mall before taking several hostages in a record store.

Maldonado Dominick Sergio, 20, surrendered about four hours later, and the hostages were released unharmed. The five other people wounded in the shooting have been released from hospitals.

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McKown's father, Roger McKown of Yelm, has said his son was licensed to carry a firearm and confronted the gunman in the mall.

Maldonado is being held on $2 million bail. He pleaded not guilty on Monday to charges of assault, kidnapping and firearms possession.

© 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. Learn more

[Meta4]

Originally Posted by ichy_trigger

WTF is a "semiautomatic machine pistol"?

I think they just make this crap up.

-James

[Gen II Geoff]

Semiautomatic and machine pistol kinda contradict eachother. But I give McKown credit for defending all those people. It would be a tough decision to make and don't know what I would do.

On a side note, does anybody know about Wisconsin's concealed carry bill? I know it passed the state assembly last week and am anxious to see if it carries through. I work in a very bad area and would certainly carry given the legal opportunity.

Thanks
Geoff

[pdjplano]

an update since he talked to reporters.


http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/...wounded29.html

Mall shooting victim is glad he held his fire
More might have been hit, he says

By SAM SKOLNIK
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER

In one of his first interviews since the shooting at the Tacoma Mall on Nov. 20, victim Brendan McKown said Monday he feared that if he had taken a shot at the man firing into the crowds, he might have only caused other shoppers to get struck by bullets.

When the shooting started, McKown, a mall store assistant manager with a license to carry a firearm, said he didn't know who was firing at whom. So he made a snap decision not to stand up and fire back. "It could be three policemen firing at one guy, and I could come out and be another target," he said.


AP
Mall shooting victim Brendan McKown answers reporters' questions with humor from his hospital bed at Tacoma General on Monday.
So he yelled at the man to drop his gun -- a move that only caused the gunman to pivot and fire at McKown, striking him, he said, five or six times. The shots blew him back several feet, he said.

"When I changed into another position, I see just the most surreal sight," McKown said from his bed at Tacoma General Hospital in a pool interview conducted by KOMO/4. "It's a young Arabic-looking boy ... with a ball cap on and an AK in his hand," he said, referring to the weapon he thought the shooter was firing, an AK-47 assault rifle.

"So I said, 'Put down the weapon!' " continued McKown. "Obviously, he was faster on the draw than I was."

Of six shooting victims, McKown, 38, was the most seriously injured. He said he has no movement in his left leg and only 10 percent normal movement in his right. He isn't sure if he'll ever walk again, though he's hopeful and determined to do so.

Police arrested Dominick Sergio Maldonado, 20, in the shooting. They also say he took four hostages at a Sam Goody music store at the mall. Pierce County prosecutors charged Maldonado with eight counts of first-degree assault, four counts of first-degree kidnapping and two counts of unlawful possession of a firearm.

As an assistant manager of the Excalibur Cutlery and Gifts store, McKown was on his way to make a deposit at the time of the shooting. Tacoma police said he was legally permitted to be carrying a pistol at the time.

"It's a stupid statement, but I have a concealed weapons permit in case some idiot shoots up a mall," said McKown, who added that he likely would return to his job, and may also start doing stand-up comedy again.



McKown on Monday was upgraded to satisfactory condition, said Todd Kelley, a spokesman for Tacoma General. Kelley said McKown might be discharged in the next couple of days to a rehabilitation clinic.

McKown was struck twice in the abdomen, and he also suffered an injury to his spinal cord. Surgery to remove bullet and bone fragments from his spinal canal was successful, though he faces the possibility of partial or permanent paralysis.

McKown said that in the end, he was thankful to be alive. "I'd be lying if I thought I was doing great," he said. "But I sure got off light, all things considered."

[Vampire]

Originally Posted by Meta4

Apparently, the only serious injury that occurred at the Tacoma Mall shooting was caused by a tactical error. Brendan drew his concealed pistol and verbally confronted the shooter. For his trouble, he was shot twice and is now in Tacoma General Hospital. He will probably not walk again.

If you carry a weapon for defense you are under no legal obligation to utter a single word before you pull the trigger. In fact, it is an error of colossal proportions to tell the shooter that you exist.

If you challenge a man who has drawn a weapon with the intent to kill, do you truly believe that you can talk him out of firing? Are you willing to risk your life at the marginal chance of preserving the life of a drug addict and felon? Moreover, if you are the only thing between that man and hordes of crying soccer moms, is it not better to err on the side of caution and ensure that there is only one casualty?

Generally, a citizen is allowed to use deadly force to protect another individual (including a total stranger) from death or serious injury, including rape. This is a perfect example of why such a legal doctrine exists.

When you have to pull the trigger, there are three ways to disable an attacker - hydraulically, mechanically, and electrically. "Hydraulically" disabling someone requires one or more wounds that will cause the attacker to "bleed out." Even with a fatal heart wound, the attacker has at least 60-90 seconds of mobility before they lose consciousness. For obvious reasons, this is not a preferred method. "Mechanically" disabling someone is more difficult, but it physically prevents an attacker from continuing their attack by "dropping" them. In a close-quarters confrontation, this is most easily done with a pelvic shot, which is a fairly large target. A bullet to the pelvis will drop an attacker instantly and keep him mostly immobile. However, this doesn't disable his upper body, so this will do little to stop a determined attacker with a firearm or other "ranged" weapon. The last and most preferred option is to "electrically" disable an attacker. This requires a very accurate shot to one of two areas - the spine, which is nearly impossible to hit under stress on a moving target, and the "headband," a two inch band around the middle of the head. This is the area to aim for.

The headband is the "lightswitch" that will instantly and permanently drop an attacker if hit hard enough. If someone threatens your life, shut him down. If his back is turned, all the better. He can't see you, and will therefore be a much easier target. This isn't medieval Europe, and chivalry doesn't mean a thing when a crazy serial killer is mowing down men, women, and children in the middle of a busy mall.

If you ever decide to carry, you'd better be prepared to do what you have to do. A brave man is laying in a hospital bed right now because he did not act aggressively enough. I know that hindsight is 20/20 and I can play armchair quarterback all day long, but this event should be a lesson to us.

In a gun fight, nice guys finish last.

-James

Damn good avice there Meta4. God forbid any of us find ourselvs in that postion, but if you do. Finish fast.

[chrome]

Originally Posted by pdjplano

an update since he talked to reporters.


http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/...wounded29.html

Mall shooting victim is glad he held his fire
More might have been hit, he says

By SAM SKOLNIK
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER

In one of his first interviews since the shooting at the Tacoma Mall on Nov. 20, victim Brendan McKown said Monday he feared that if he had taken a shot at the man firing into the crowds, he might have only caused other shoppers to get struck by bullets.

When the shooting started, McKown, a mall store assistant manager with a license to carry a firearm, said he didn't know who was firing at whom. So he made a snap decision not to stand up and fire back. "It could be three policemen firing at one guy, and I could come out and be another target," he said.


AP
Mall shooting victim Brendan McKown answers reporters' questions with humor from his hospital bed at Tacoma General on Monday.
So he yelled at the man to drop his gun -- a move that only caused the gunman to pivot and fire at McKown, striking him, he said, five or six times. The shots blew him back several feet, he said.

"When I changed into another position, I see just the most surreal sight," McKown said from his bed at Tacoma General Hospital in a pool interview conducted by KOMO/4. "It's a young Arabic-looking boy ... with a ball cap on and an AK in his hand," he said, referring to the weapon he thought the shooter was firing, an AK-47 assault rifle.

"So I said, 'Put down the weapon!' " continued McKown. "Obviously, he was faster on the draw than I was."

Of six shooting victims, McKown, 38, was the most seriously injured. He said he has no movement in his left leg and only 10 percent normal movement in his right. He isn't sure if he'll ever walk again, though he's hopeful and determined to do so.

Police arrested Dominick Sergio Maldonado, 20, in the shooting. They also say he took four hostages at a Sam Goody music store at the mall. Pierce County prosecutors charged Maldonado with eight counts of first-degree assault, four counts of first-degree kidnapping and two counts of unlawful possession of a firearm.

As an assistant manager of the Excalibur Cutlery and Gifts store, McKown was on his way to make a deposit at the time of the shooting. Tacoma police said he was legally permitted to be carrying a pistol at the time.

"It's a stupid statement, but I have a concealed weapons permit in case some idiot shoots up a mall," said McKown, who added that he likely would return to his job, and may also start doing stand-up comedy again.



McKown on Monday was upgraded to satisfactory condition, said Todd Kelley, a spokesman for Tacoma General. Kelley said McKown might be discharged in the next couple of days to a rehabilitation clinic.

McKown was struck twice in the abdomen, and he also suffered an injury to his spinal cord. Surgery to remove bullet and bone fragments from his spinal canal was successful, though he faces the possibility of partial or permanent paralysis.

McKown said that in the end, he was thankful to be alive. "I'd be lying if I thought I was doing great," he said. "But I sure got off light, all things considered."

Taking my 2 hour CPR class certified by some 3rd party organization....

Being covered by the Good Samirtan (sp) law..

Taking 12 hours of instruction for my CCW permit by a state certified instructor..

(insert wishful thinking good person law for trying to protect others...)

[jkswiss]

This guy seems to be taking it well. I know I wouldn't be so chipper if I was partially paralyzed. However, I'm very glad to see that he has partial use of one leg. There may be hope for him yet. I hope he makes a full recovery.