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XDs Recall: What are they fixing?

This is a discussion on XDs Recall: What are they fixing? within the XD-S Discussion Room forums, part of the XD Talk category; i sent my XD 4" service model to SA and they returned it with an XDS grip. feels better now. AND its fixed !...


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Old 09-12-2013, 03:11 PM   #41
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i sent my XD 4" service model to SA and they returned it with an XDS grip. feels better now. AND its fixed !
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Old 09-12-2013, 10:44 PM   #42
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Wonder when we will see a new manual/parts list to download that accurately depicts the fixed handguns?
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Old 09-12-2013, 10:52 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Badfinger View Post
Apparently, not all guns between the listed numbers are recalled. Mine is 599xxx and comes back as not recalled. Why don't I feel good about that?
Be sure to put the ENTIRE serial number in, including the letters. If not, it will come back as "not recalled"!
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Old 09-13-2013, 12:14 AM   #44
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...getting back on topic...

Thanks, Sloman, for starting this topic on what should be the most fundamental question in all this -- what are they fixing? Since SA seems to be extremely short on info about this, at least for now, how 'bout we spit-ball it for a while?

To break it down more:
1. What is the specific set of steps/conditions that can lead to a discharge after releasing the slide or a double-fire, and what exactly is happening inside the pistol when this occurs?

2. Precisely what parts or alterations will the recall fix introduce that will resolve the problem(s) (and not introduce any new ones)?
Don't know about you guys, but I happen to load my pistol in the same house where my family lives, then essentially stuff it in my pants, and finally walk around in society near innocent bystanders. So, while I love(d?) my XDs, in order to keep it, I need to be 100% satisfied that I understand how it wasn't safe before, and then how it will become so after the repair.

In the past 48 hours, I've learned a ton about striker-fired pistols. Here are some useful links for us:
Yes, this one is for Glock, and once you boil it down to specifics, you will see many differences with the XDs; however, the principles are very much the same. Highly instructive:
genitron.com/Basics/Interactive-Glock-Pistol
... and two videos of our XDs's (one for a spring kit, the other just for disassembly). Not about the problem at hand, but you can tell the guys who made them are armorers and know their stuff. Call the parts by the proper names, show how they fit together, and speak at least a little as to integrated function:
youtube.com/watch?v=CSOkW8udtdk
youtube.com/watch?v=E95aZltbcNo
[Got anything better than the above? Please share!]
. . . but I'm no armorer, and while I'm just about understanding the intricacies of proper function of an XDs, I'm not yet able to conceive what would be going wrong for our malfunction(s) to happen. [And, since I don't have that, I really can't yet conceive whatever it is you'd do to fix whatever that is!]

So, can we resume the conversation from here?
At least for the fire-when-slide-released problem, it seems that the Striker Pin Safety must be disengaged for the discharge to occur. And if that's true, then I would think that the upward-extending portion of the Trigger Bar must be disengaging the Striker Pin Safety. [So the Trigger Bar is somehow higher than it is supposed to be.] We might further speculate that the Sear is catching, at least briefly, the Lug of the Striker, and then releasing it as the Slide continues to move forward.
So-- using proper terminology (take a look at the exploded diagrams on pp. 32-35 of your manual)-- how would that have happened? And what modification would be made to prevent that? And what the heck does the Grip Safety have to do with any of it? [And then let's talk about the double-fire. . . ]

Last edited by colcy363; 09-15-2013 at 01:34 PM.
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Old 09-13-2013, 06:42 AM   #45
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Old 09-13-2013, 03:09 PM   #46
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Undoubtedly prescient, clayton4971, can of worms. . . But I'm at least hoping that the combined intellect of the group (or heck, maybe just the input of one qualified armorer who happens to read this forum) can shed some light on the workings of what, in the end, is a mechanical device of only moderate complexity. Where are the mechanically-minded among us who have something real to offer?
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Old 09-13-2013, 06:44 PM   #47
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Personally I think its good for people to ask questions that's how we all learn and to me I could care less if its been posted before . Sometimes it brings a new prospective to the post. The can of worms was for the off topic complaining ( sorry i am off topic now) less get this post back on track!!
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Old 09-14-2013, 05:13 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by kayakersteve View Post
uh, mine is still on my hip.
Same here.
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Old 09-15-2013, 11:19 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by colcy363 View Post
So, can we resume the conversation from here?
At least for the fire-when-slide-released problem, it seems that the Striker Pin Safety must be disengaged for the discharge to occur. And if that's true, then I would think that the upward-extending portion of the Trigger Bar must be disengaging the Striker Pin Safety. [So the Trigger Bar is somehow higher than it is supposed to be.] We might further speculate that the Sear is catching, at least briefly, the Lug of the Striker, and then releasing it as the Slide continues to move forward.
So-- using proper terminology (take a look at the exploded diagrams on pp. 32-35 of your manual)-- how would that have happened? And what modification would be made to prevent that? And what the heck does the Grip Safety have to do with any of it? [And then let's talk about the double-fire. . . ]
Here are some ideas at least on what might be going wrong during the malfunctions. Take a look at attached diagram which calls out interactions in the Sear Housing during proper function. [Props to YouTube's "James Nicholas" video called "xds part 3 detail disassembly", where these still shots came from.]

So here is my Theory. . . First, the Trigger has been pulled and is being held back by the shooter's finger. This could be because you just shot, or because you are loading with the Trigger already snapped back, and you are also dumb enough to be holding it down at the same time you release the Slide.

Now, as the Slide is coming forward, the Sear is supposed to be high enough to catch the Lug of the Striker. But let's say it's only partially raised by the Sear Spring (maybe it's weak, or maybe things are dirty?). So the Sear is high enough to just catch the Lug of the Striker, but only briefly. This would give the Striker a nice little snap. (And remember, the upper-extending portion of the Trigger Bar would still be disengaging the Striker Pin Safety because the shooter is pulling the Trigger back.) Bang!

Now get this. . . theoretically this cycle could repeat until the shooter releases the Trigger, or the pistol is out of ammunition. Wait a sec, isn't that full auto? Why, yes, I think it is! And indeed I have seen at least one post on this forum (title was something to the effect of "I started it all") saying his pistol emptied with a single pull of the Trigger. If this is true then I think SA is grossly understating the potential problem when they refer to it as a "double-fire".

Anyone else got a better explanation? Please share. And then on to what would be attached to a new Roll Pin in the Grip Safety that would prevent this. (Extra spring of some kind, maybe? More probably some kind of linkage to the Sear to help get it in proper position?)

BTW, if anyone from SA happens to be reading this and doesn't like this kind of conjecture, then for heaven's sake, dispel it all by divulging full detail of the recall officially on your website.
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Old 09-19-2013, 09:52 PM   #50
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they will not tell us until they know which parts they can buh
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