New sights for my XDM.

[Dustin D.]

Originally Posted by Loves2Shoot

That is why I replied the way I did, most people think you should line the dots up, and that is slower and less accurate.

If you have one dot, the dot is there to get your attention and you focus not on the dot, but on the sight above the dot.

I hope that makes more sense.

No it doesn't make more sense.

You line the dot's up obviously, so you aware that your pistol is level, up&down, left&right. Then you look at the edge and fire. This is always done at all at once. it's called sight alignment sight picture.

If the forward dot, is the only one you should be looking at, then what are the rear two, Decoy's ?

Now it very much seems like your joking, or don't know what your talking about, or are horrible at getting your point across. The latter is what I'm pulling for

[DPGDirk]

Originally Posted by Dustin D.

No it doesn't make more sense.

You line the dot's up obviously, so you aware that your pistol is level, up&down, left&right. Then you look at the edge and fire. This is always done at all at once. it's called sight alignment sight picture.

If the forward dot, is the only one you should be looking at, then what are the rear two, Decoy's ?

Now it very much seems like your joking, or don't know what your talking about, or are horrible at getting your point across. The latter is what I'm pulling for

I understand what he's saying, although he may not have elaborated enough for you in regards to gun indexing and rear sight usage/picture.

I also think you'd be embarrassed to say that he may not know what he's talking about if you knew the skill level he shoots at.
The vast majority of us here will never shoot at the level he does, and based on your response, I'm betting you're nowhere close either.

Any time Scott has a shooting tip, I listen...

[VetteVert]

Originally Posted by Dustin D.

No it doesn't make more sense.

You line the dot's up obviously, so you aware that your pistol is level, up&down, left&right. Then you look at the edge and fire. This is always done at all at once. it's called sight alignment sight picture.

If the forward dot, is the only one you should be looking at, then what are the rear two, Decoy's ?

Now it very much seems like your joking, or don't know what your talking about, or are horrible at getting your point across. The latter is what I'm pulling for

You forgot the 4th, and way more likely possibility. However, it appears as if ego might be shielding it from view

FWIW, if the top edge of the sights are level, they are level (regardless of any dot placement within them). One is used for quick acquisition, the other to aim. At least that is how I was taught, but I am very capable of learning otherwise

VV

[Loves2Shoot]

Originally Posted by VetteVert

FWIW, if the top edge of the sights are level, they are level (regardless of any dot placement within them).

Correct. If you are looking at the dots, you are not putting your focus in the most efficient place. The top edge of the front sight tells you all you need to know.

I'll say it again, if you are looking at the dots, you are not aiming in a way that is accurate or efficient. You should "complete the line" that is the top edge of your sights. Our brains are much better at connecting straight lines than aligning floating dots.

If your eyes can not clearly see the top edge of the front sight, then you do need to use the floating dots, which is less accurate and slower, but may be adequate.

I may not be the best at explaining in writing, or you may need more education on how shooting really works than I can provide in a single post (Brian Enos has a great book on this) but feel free to give me a call on this and I'm sure I can explain in better with words.

I think I do have some understanding on how shooting a pistol works. In the last 5 IDPA State championships I've shoot in the last 2 years, I've had 2 people with lower times than I had (and the number would be one had I started 1 stge with a full magazine, DOH.) I usually had one of the lowest points down in the match also, so this technique I'm trying to describe has more than validated itself as being superior to "lining up the dots" for being fast and accurate.

[Loves2Shoot]

Originally Posted by Dustin D.

If the forward dot, is the only one you should be looking at, then what are the rear two, Decoy's ?

They are for novice shooter who don't understand how to efficiently shoot a pistol or for people with poor sight.

Truth of the matter is that they started putting dots on sights in large numbers in the 80's and since most people don't need to shoot very far or very accurate with a pistol, the manufacturers started making them stock, since over a gun counter they look neater than the all black sights that had been around forever. They also started making a lot of tritium sights, which have three dots for in the dark shooting.

For the unskilled shooter you can use the dots for aiming at close distances and have success by lining up the dots. That is the majority of the guns market also. People who want a gun and who may shooting it a few hundred times in their ownership of it probably buy more guns than people who shoot their guns tens to hundreds of thousands of times.

Most all of the top action pistol shooters that I know do NOT have dots on the rear sight, as yes, they are decoys and just a distraction when you know how to use your sights.

[rgeliske]

Scott is absolutely right. The addition of dots to the sights was basically a marketing ploy targeting recreational shooters. It was presented that 3 dots alignment was faster than the blade a groove. You still see those same marketing attempts today with different sight designs but, in most cases any type of sight which draws attention away from the front sight to target alignment will always be slower in tactical shooting. Front to rear alignment may work better in long range and bullseye shooting but not when it comes to speed with accuracy.

[Jeffs_Dad]

Scott, thank you for the information. I'm 61 and I use to shoot in my 30's. So I haven't done it in a long time!! I believe you explained why the I couldn't find where my new Kahr was hitting on the target - yeah, I'm that bad. jp

[Dustin D.]

I do shoot with the top edge. Just like everyone else.

But regardless your peripheral vision does indeed SEE and line up the rear sights to the front sights.

Which still goes back to my original statement. The Dots are there for alignment. All of them, not just the front. Even if they're were no dots, you'd still line up the rear and front.

Otherwise it would be like firing a shotgun, with NO rear sights.

And VettVert, I don't have an ego problem. I seem to have lost that decades ago.

[Loves2Shoot]

WOW.

You asked what would happen with no rear dots.

You would probably shooter more accurately and faster, because you don't have the rear dots to distract from the leading edge of the front sight focus you should have.

This is common knowledge in action pistol shooting. We sell at least 10 black rear sights to every dot rear sight. We also well over 500 sights a year. So, for every 50 people who use 3 dots (most of those have fading vision) 500 chose a 1 dot in the front and 0 dots on the rear sight.

When you are shooting 4-5 shots per second accurately, your brain does not have time to deal with lining up dots, it is too slow to do that. As soon as the leading edge of your front sight "completes the line" with your rear sight notch, you break the shot. The dot on the front (for those who use it) is ONLY there to get your attention on the front sight, you should not focus on it.

http://www.oregonshooting.com/vids/grip2.wmv

Toward the end of the video there is some rapid fire shooting that illustrates this. All of the shots were in the A zone on the target, as I was simply completing the line of the top edges of the front and rear sights, when the line was complete, I pulled the trigger, so I could tell by knowing the alignment of the "line" where the shots went, the instant they went off. this is known as "calling your shot."

[Gantz]

As far as I know the only time you sight with a dot is when it's on an open gun... Fiber optics are there to draw attention to the front sight not to aim with at all.

Heck speakin of BE I'm pretty sure he's said on his forums that before he retired he didn't even use a fiber at all. As far as I remember he shot black on black and just lined up the lines.

Actually at my last match I was for the first time seeing the sights. All I remember seeing was sights lined up, lift, sights back, and squeeze. I don't even remember the red dot at all.