Springfield Armory service

[eb_311]

Originally Posted by XD357sig

Everyone is missing the point here. When you used the Gun Scrubber, you left all the metal parts with no protective oil, just bare metal that would rust just from any humidity.

Shouldn't all the metal parts have a finish on them. I don't have any bare metal parts in my xd. Except for the barrel which I keep well oiled.

[khamill2000]

Originally Posted by XD357sig

Everyone is missing the point here. When you used the Gun Scrubber, you left all the metal parts with no protective oil, just bare metal that would rust just from any humidity.

1. The Gun Scrubber was not used until after the trigger stuck the first time.
2. I sprayed Rem-Oil in the gun after I sprayed Gun Scrubber in there.

3. The SA rep said that sweat would not cause this, Gun Scrubber would not cause this, and that gunpowder residue would not cause this. She said that I must have put some other chemical in the gun to cause this.

[fearless1]

Originally Posted by khamill2000

1. The Gun Scrubber was not used until after the trigger stuck the first time.
2. I sprayed Rem-Oil in the gun after I sprayed Gun Scrubber in there.

3. The SA rep said that sweat would not cause this, Gun Scrubber would not cause this, and that gunpowder residue would not cause this. She said that I must have put some other chemical in the gun to cause this.

Metal surfaces devoid of lubricants and/or rust inhibitors no matter what the cause, whether from recent or long term prior use of Gun Scrubber or some other cause....combined with some of XD's metal parts having a propensity to rust, were the cause of your gun's problems.

What you could have done:

1. Post here asking for help before going to SA for help. The remedy would have been to simply take the gun apart, clean away any corrosion/rust, lube the parts, then reassemble the gun back to operational status. This assumes the parts were serviceable to begin with.

2. Not pay the price they quoted you for repair of your gun. Warranty service for both the provider and the beneficiary is sometimes like playing poker involving bluffs, calls, and even raises (others would call the scenario a "negotiation" involving offers/counteroffers). Instead of paying SA, you could have tried one or even both of the following alternatives. Again, assuming serviceable parts, which were most likely the case, you could have requested instead they simply clean, lube, and reinstall the original parts, then return the gun to you. If SA felt that parts replacement was absolutely necessary, you still could have insisted they fix the gun on their dime. Your insistence may have been with justified if the parts that had rusted were the ones that have melonite coating and/or made of stainless. Needless to say, you and SA are now in disagreement…and both of you would have taken the first step to 3rd party arbitration proceedings. How bad you want to “win” will determine how far you are willing to escalate to the next step. So, if SA then responds they will not work on your gun without payment, you tell them to document their reasons for refusal then send the gun back to you so you “can take things to the next level”.

So, what may have been the real reason SA wanted you to pay for new parts? IMO, to save them the extra expense of having to pay an SA employee a few hours of additional labor costs to clean your parts when instead he/she can simply reach into the new parts bin and get your gun working again in a fraction of the time. BTW, did SA return to you the old parts along with the gun? If SA did not return your old parts, then IMO, they owe them to you. After all, YOU PAID FOR THEM when you first purchased the gun AND you also PAID FOR THE NEW PARTS to get the gun fixed. If they claim to no longer have the old parts…no problem…tell them they can either send you NEW parts or they can simply refund your $57!

So, now what?

First and foremost, ask to speak to (or email, write letter to) a middle or even senior level manager/supervisor to plead your case to. People at the higher levels are [in my experience] easier to sway AND have the authority to countermand the “peons” at the lower levels. Still can’t get what you want? That would be the time to bring in 3rd party outside help to your cause.

Need help? You can start by filing complaints against SA with the Federal Trade Commission and perhaps the Better Business Bureau and/or Consumer Services offices that are local to SA. These agencies do not have enforcement capabilities, but is a good first step to escalating to more effective measures.

www.bbb.org
www.ftc.gov

Finally, despite the stainless and melonite finish of the XD line of guns along with their propensity to rust, I consider the XD line of guns “blued”. Because of their true blue nature, I detail strip my XDs after say 4 shooting/gun cleaning sessions. The detail strip allows me to both examine the parts for corrosion and rust formation as well as to apply a rust inhibiting lubricant to the parts too. Most critical is the extractor. I learned the hard way the first time I struggled to remove an oversized and rusted-in extractor from an XD. When I finally got the extractor out of the melonite coated slide (busted a couple of pick tools in the process), I was shocked to see rust INSIDE the slide. Anyway, after parts removal, inspection, and cleaning, I use Castrol Multi-Purpose Wheel Bearing Grease as both a lube and excellent rust preventative. I use the wheel-bearing grease since it is highly resistant to water, high temps, and evaporation.

BTW, Glock, Inc is also very good at playing poker when it comes to their warranty!

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[khamill2000]

Fearless-

As to #1. No need. Springfield is known for their top notch customer service.
As to #2. Had they not called me while I was at work, I would have spent the time to at least argue. I was totally unprepared for them to accuse me of dumping chemicals in the gun or to charge me for the parts. My gut instinct was to tell her just to send the gun back to me however, the repairs had already been made. The note I included with the gun requested repairs, not an estimate (my fault) due to #1 above.

I will be calling shortly to verify it was shipped and am staying home tomorrow to receive it. I have verified that they charged my cc $57.80. I expect my next step will be a letter to the company. Anybody have the CEO's name and address?

[fearless1]

Originally Posted by eb_311

Shouldn't all the metal parts have a finish on them. I don't have any bare metal parts in my xd. Except for the barrel which I keep well oiled.

There will be bare metal at some of the bearing surfaces where the finish has worn off. Uncoated small parts would be springs and mag catch.

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[CMfromIL]

Originally Posted by khamill2000

Anybody have the CEO's name and address?

Let me google that for you:

Springfield Armory, Inc.: Information from Answers.com

Contact Information
Springfield Armory, Inc.
420 W. Main St.
Geneseo, IL 61254
IL Tel. 309-944-5631
Toll Free 800-680-6866
Fax 309-944-3676

Type: Private
On the web: http://www.springfield-armory.com
Employees: 135

What's in a name? If you're Springfield Armory, it carries more than 200 years of firepower behind it. The firm makes pistols and rifles (including the 1911 and XD brands) for personal, military, law enforcement, and competitive use. It sells logoed apparel and sporting accessories, such as scopes and cases, on its Web site. Products are primarily sold through US retailers and internationally. Customers can customize their guns with upgrades and modifications through the company's Springfield Custom unit. The original Springfield Armory was designated as the country's first arsenal by George Washington in 1794.
Key numbers for fiscal year ending September, 2008:
Sales: $15.3M
Officers:
Co-Chairman and CEO: Dennis (Denny) Reese
Co-Chairman: Tom Reese
Manager Sales: Peggy Hickenbottom

[fearless1]

Originally Posted by khamill2000

Fearless-

As to #1. No need. Springfield is known for their top notch customer service.
As to #2. Had they not called me while I was at work, I would have spent the time to at least argue. I was totally unprepared for them to accuse me of dumping chemicals in the gun or to charge me for the parts. My gut instinct was to tell her just to send the gun back to me however, the repairs had already been made. The note I included with the gun requested repairs, not an estimate (my fault) due to #1 above.

I will be calling shortly to verify it was shipped and am staying home tomorrow to receive it. I have verified that they charged my cc $57.80. I expect my next step will be a letter to the company. Anybody have the CEO's name and address?

Most "reputable" companies are "known for having top notch customer service". It's really a no brainer for customer service depts to handle the daily run of the mill customer issues. This is where CS gets good ratings for the most part. However, the true measure of a companies' customer service is how they handle the peculiar and/or difficult customer issues such as yours. You'll get a much more accurate picture of their CS as your case is escalated to higher levels at SA (hint, if you can, attempt to take your case outside of the Technical Support depts of SA). At present, based on your description here of events to date, the CS dept you think highly of may have "scammed" you a little bit (although they still are spending some of their own money to fix your gun).

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[rsallen13]

He has the same thread over at KSCCW and I cannot believe anyone on this site thinks that SA is responsible for a rust issue. If it rusts it is negligence on the part of the owner, period. A properly maintained gun will not rust and if rust does appear it will be addressed asap.

To ask SA to replace the parts under warranty because the weapon was not maintained properly is just wrong.

[fearless1]

Originally Posted by rsallen13

He has the same thread over at KSCCW and I cannot believe anyone on this site thinks that SA is responsible for a rust issue. If it rusts it is negligence on the part of the owner, period. A properly maintained gun will not rust and if rust does appear it will be addressed asap.

To ask SA to replace the parts under warranty because the weapon was not maintained properly is just wrong.

Oops...

- OP indicated how he maintains his XDm with Gun Scrubber and Remington gun oil. The internal parts of the gun that would rust and cause binding are not readily visible. Additionally, the typical or average gun owner is not expected to have the inclination and/or the skills to detail strip their guns so they can perform thorough examinations of the parts that are most likely to rust or corrode. As for who or what is responsible for rust on guns....depends on the claims of the manufacturer relative to the expectations of the gun buyer/owner. However, this is analysis is mostly irrelevent to the OP's case since he appears to have demonstrated an attempt to correctly maintain his XDm. Your interpretations of "negligence" in general and how you apply them specifically to the OP are not supportable.

- OP also indicated that he did NOT request parts replacement as a remedy. Instead, OP indicated that SA unilaterally made the decision to use new parts as a fix (and it would appear, to also decide to keep the old parts too).

It's obvious that I've been giving the OP the benefit of the doubt (no reason not to at the moment). Submit proof that he's been less than honest about his claims to validate your own claims.


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[rsallen13]

Originally Posted by fearless1

Oops...

- OP indicated how he maintains his XDm with Gun Scrubber and Remington gun oil. The internal parts of the gun that would rust and cause binding are not readily visible. Additionally, the typical or average gun owner is not expected to have the inclination and/or the skills to detail strip their guns so they can perform thorough examinations of the parts that are most likely to rust or corrode. As for who or what is responsible for rust on guns....depends on the claims of the manufacturer relative to the expectations of the gun buyer/owner. However, this is analysis is mostly irrelevent to the OP's case since he appears to have demonstrated an attempt to correctly maintain his XDm. Your interpretations of "negligence" in general and how you apply them specifically to the OP are not supportable.

- OP also indicated that he did NOT request parts replacement as a remedy. Instead, OP indicated that SA unilaterally made the decision to use new parts as a fix (and it would appear, to also decide to keep the old parts too).

It's obvious that I've been giving the OP the benefit of the doubt (no reason not to at the moment). Submit proof that he's been less than honest about his claims to validate your own claims.


f1

In response to point 1 it is the owners responsibility to maintain his weapon. If it rusted then it was not maintained. If it had been maintained properly it would not have a rust issue. It is not SA responsiblity to come to your house and maintain it for you.

In response to point 2 you are incorrect he stated that "The note I included with the gun requested repairs, not an estimate (my fault) due to #1 above." So he in fact did authorize the repairs.

In response to point 3 I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he did not put any corrosive chemicals on his weapon. But it still rusted. So you are saying that SA is somehow responsible for rust on a weapon that is 8 months old and has been fired and cleaned by the owner?

Whatever happen to personal responsiblity?