Well, no HST for me!

[Tally XD]

Well, after several hours of looking, inspecting, cleaning and thinking about this problem, I think I may have found out what is causing this misfeed with the Federal HST rounds.

I checked my magazines and both had a small bulge near the top rear of the mag (behind the cartridge primer area of the second round in the mag), but since I only use ONE of those magazines for range duty and have rarely used the other mag, it must be pretty common. So, I think this, at least this alone, would not cause such a misfeed for ANY type of round.

So, I tested both mags using the HST rounds. What I did was to load a full 13 rounds into one mag, and repeatedly eject them by quickly and very firmly racking the slide back rapidly until all rounds were ejected. I did this with both magazines with the same results.

The only time I got a misfeed was when I failed to firmly rack the slide all the way back. The failure to feed was the exact same type of jam I encountered at the range with live fire. The round that was ready to chamber was tipped up too far with the hollow point fed just partially into the chamber itself. The next round below it was nosed completely down and into the magazine with the hollow point resting against the cartridge below it. A total jam that resulted in the necessity to hold the slide back while releasing the magazine.

I know I cannot even come close to the same speed of the slide by hand that would be achieved under real firing conditions, but it allowed me to see what was happening in the chamber feed area. (NO! the gun barrel was NOT pointed towards my face nor toward anyone else and my trigger finger was NEVER at any point in the trigger guard)

As long as I continued to fully rack the slide back firmly all the way to the slide stop none of the rounds misfed.

So, I then tamped down the bulge on the magazine in until it was back to smooth and flush, checked the magazine feed lips with a round in the magazine and then proceeded to disassemble and clean both magazines.

After reassembly, I did the test again with clean magazines.

Same results. If I failed to fully and firmly rack the slide I would get the same failure to feed and jam.

So, I really and truly believe this problem is NOT with the Federal HST ammo alone, but rather with the user of the gun. I am not an expert shooter and am only slightly above novice as compared to many users here and anywhere else.

It is my belief that the problem lies with limp wristing coupled with the larger mouth of these hollow points and I would bet that of those who have had this problem, 99% of them would fall into novice or slightly above novice in their gun handling skills "score" so to speak. The feed angle of the XD is just almost straight in and there isnt much that could get in the way of the round as it feeds into the chamber. The round is far enough back from the chamber that it doesnt even come close to hitting the feed ramp on its way in.

I suggest to all of those with this problem to please try to consciously prevent limp wristing and shoot a box or two of these rounds. Slow fire or fast fire should not matter. The gun should feed these rounds as it would any other round as long as you do not limp wrist while shooting them. Just make sure you have a firm hold and do not flinch at the recoil.

I have also had fail to feed with regular FMJ a few times but I usually am shooting low velocity practice stuff that doesnt produce quite as much recoil. I think the +P ammo may be inducing more recoil and causing a flinch that results in a limp wrist moment and the gun does not fully slam the slide back.

[Bree]

Interesting theory TallyXD. Thanks for sharing.

I neither limp wrist nor flinch at my XD45C recoil. When I switched to .45 ACP, I was used to the recoil of a .357 Magnum with 158 grain HydraShoks so the .45 was a piece of cake for me even with +P rounds. It's a powder puff comparatively speaking. Plus the XD is a great .45 platform.

Maybe you have hit on a reason why some of us have never had a problem with HST's feeding properly.

[bartonmd]

Tally,

The first time I shot a handgun, I was 5 years old. I've shot maybe... 12 or 13,000 rounds of handgun in the last 7-8 years. I'm not a hardcore competitive shooter, but I wouldn't say I'm new, either... I'm 6' tall, 190#, so it's not like I'm a 130 pounder... Even +P .45ACP, even in this light of a semi-auto, is not nearly as bad to shoot as .357 out of an aluminum framed snubby, or .44mag out of an N-frame.

All of these happened when I was "squeezing the lemon" so to speak, and none of them happened in the 30 rounds that I was shooting "loosely" one handed (limp-wristing was the first thing that came to mind, even before I posted on the forum). I was holding it as loosely, one handed, as I thought I could without the thing coming out of my hand, and my arm was stretched out, but slightly bent. Did not happen once in the 3 mags full that I did that...

By the way, it happened with the same occurance to my wife that it did to me, and she's a novice shooter who doesn't have nearly the grip that I do... If that was the cause, I would expect it to happen at a higher rate with her, and it did not.

I really don't take offense to the limp-wristing theory, because it was the first thing I thought before I even posted on the forum about it... The fact is, these failures did not happen, for me, because of limp-wristing.

Mike

[Tally XD]

Ok then. I guess I am just reaching for reasons to believe my gun should shoot HST without a problem. I certainly wasnt accusing anyone of being a novice, but, so far, none of you took it that way either.


It just makes no sense to me why there should be a problem, even though Scott at Springer gave me his thoughts. I just cannot see it and I am refusing to give up on it yet.

[XDONBOARD]

Originally Posted by jtkratzer

Never had a problem with Speer GoldDots in 200 gr. +P or 230 gr.

+1000

[bartonmd]

I seriously don't take offense to it, but am must stating that, in this particular instance, that aint' it...

BTW, I have noticed that there are marks on the lower feed ramp where other hollow points have hit, but the others don't seem to want to hang up as easily... My real, honest, partially informed opinion is this: Have you noticed that the magazine springs on the XD are signifigantly weaker than on a Glock? I can very easily load all of my magazines, but have to really work to load the mags on my brother's G30. You know what lets the nose point down while the slide hits the TOP rear of the case? The mag spring. I suspect that a stronger mag spring would not let this happen. I also suspect that a stronger mag spring would go past its yield point, or would bind if loading as many rounds into the magazine as with the stock XD spring... I suspect that they went with a weaker mag spring for the sake of getting that 1 more round in the mag.

Mike

[So Flo]

Originally Posted by jtkratzer

Never had a problem with Speer GoldDots in 200 gr. +P or 230 gr.

+1

I run Gold Dots in all my carry/home defense guns.

[Bree]

Originally Posted by bartonmd

I seriously don't take offense to it, but am must stating that, in this particular instance, that aint' it...

BTW, I have noticed that there are marks on the lower feed ramp where other hollow points have hit, but the others don't seem to want to hang up as easily... My real, honest, partially informed opinion is this: Have you noticed that the magazine springs on the XD are signifigantly weaker than on a Glock? I can very easily load all of my magazines, but have to really work to load the mags on my brother's G30. You know what lets the nose point down while the slide hits the TOP rear of the case? The mag spring. I suspect that a stronger mag spring would not let this happen. I also suspect that a stronger mag spring would go past its yield point, or would bind if loading as many rounds into the magazine as with the stock XD spring... I suspect that they went with a weaker mag spring for the sake of getting that 1 more round in the mag.

Mike

All my mags are 10 round (NY law) Maybe that makes a diff?

[bartonmd]

My 10-rd shorty mags take about the same amount of pressure to load as the 13rd Service mags... They are all much easier than a Glock to load, though...

Mike