Why Do You Carry A 45 ACP?

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by TacBlack

One of the fundamental criticisms of the 45 ACP is that it has a "loopy" trajectory. That's been in some sense mediated these days with higher velocity ammo. Still, the nominal velocity is in the 1,000 fps realm while calibers such as the .357 mag, 9mm, 44 magnum go half again faster.
I'm good at 25 ft. with the 45 ACP. That's "defense distance" for the most part. But when I get out to 25 yds, which is "target distance," my groups go to hell on me. I think a lot of it has to do with trajectory.

Sorry Tac, your less than optimal shooting at 25yds has nothing, zero, nada to do w/ a flatter trajectory. The 45acp @ 850fps shoots just about as flat out to 25yds as any other pistol round. It's always about sights/grip & trigger. The vel. of the round starts to come into play past 50yds, but I have seen some very fine shooting at 50yds w/ the "slow" 45acp. Just about anyone w/ a bit of experience can shoot 1" groups @ 25ft. If their mechanics are good, 75ft groups would be about 3" if the pistol is capabale. If you are shooting 3" groups at 25ft, then expect pie plate groups @ 75ft. Most service pistols w/ decent ammo will do 3" @ 75ft, whether @ 850fps or 1500fps.

[Alaskapopo]

The 45 only drops about 6 inches at 100 yards. Thats not going to show at 25 yards.
Here is a target fired with my Wilson Combat at 25 yards off hand.


That is 2.25 inches for 5 shots.

Here is the gun.

[GlockConvert]

Originally Posted by Alaskapopo

That was the 1986 FBI shooting with Platt and Madox. The round was a 115 grain Winchester Silvertip in 9mm. The round performed as advertised and penetrated the subjects arm and stopped 1 inch short of his heart going a total of 10 inches (just as it was designed to do the current thinking at the time was into shallow energy dumping bullets not bullets that penetrate). The suspect had been shot several times with 9mm's. What finally killed him was a wounded agent charging him with a 38 snub taking a head shot as the suspect was attempting to leave in his vehicle.

The 1986 Miami shooting lead to the FBI pistol bullet tests that have revolutionized the handgun ammunition world. If it were not for this shooting we would not have a lot of the advances we now have today.

That being said this was not so much a bullet failure as a tactical one. The bad guy in this case was armed with a mini 14. His partner was pretty much incapacitated when their vehicle was ramed by the FBI agents.

The agents had Miami PD on the way they should have waited and not ramed the vehicle when they did. Frankly the FBI is great at investigating white collar crime but they are not gun fighters. Patrol officers are much better trained and equipped to deal with violent offenders.

Also when the agents rammed the suspects vehicle they lost the only MP5 they had under the seat. Their best shooter lost his glasses.

The agents took cover behind their vehicle. The bad guy used good tactics by laying suppressive fire pinning the agents down then he flanked them and shot them behind their vehicles. Two agents were caught reloading behind their vehicle at the same time (team tactics always cover your partner while he is reloading then he will do the same for you don't shoot dry together)

I know some people hate to second guess other cops. But if we don't learn from our mistakes we are bound to repeat them.
Pat

Wow, you mean there was no kinetic energy/one stop shot when the round penetrated almost halfway through his body? Weird, I guess that maybe the marketing folks have been lying to us... Seriously folks, its not magic. WIth handguns stopping power equals penetration and expansion.

Where you hit em,
How many times you hit em,
What you hit em with,
and the often overlooked:
How do they feel about being hit.

Those are the variables in the formula.

D

[enfurno]

Originally Posted by 10-8XDs

Gentlemen,

I have enjoyed this thread but I would like to offer just a couple of observations. I know emotions run high on what/how to carry and choice of caliber, but I think the "one stop shot" is a exception rather than a yardstick of performance, don't you think?

I have been taught that once a threat situation goes into the engagement mode, you continue to apply force until the threat is no longer there. To me this means that if a handgun is used I shoot until the threat is down or gone, 1 shot or 13, whatever it takes.

Anyway, I enjoy reading everybody's opinions and the 2 most important facts are:

You need to HAVE a gun and it needs to the the type/caliber that you shoot the BEST.

Mike

You summed it up well. A .45 is no better than a rock in the hands of a man who can handle a rock better than a .45. There is no debate to be made, there is no superior caliber. What you shoot well is the superior caliber for you, but certainly not for the next guy.

Well placed shots far surpass a big bullet. If you can't hit the target with a 50 cal then you just made that enormous chunk of lead absolutely worthless. I carry a 9mm because I can place my shots much better with it than any other handgun caliber, even .22. If I could rap out 2 inch groups at 30 yards with a .22 then guess what, I'd most certainly carry a 22 and feel safe knowing that I could put someone down with it should the situation arise.

I honestly think that the ONLY debate on ammunition is what type of loads you carry, whether it be hydrashocks, gold dots, +p, etc. Knowing that the ammunition you choose will perform everytime is alot more important than the size of that ammo. Any hole is better than no hole and I don't care what it is, if I get shot by anything I am going to make some serious decisions on where I am and what I am doing there.

[IndyMatt]

After thinking about I say I won't carry a 9MM but I carry a S&W J Frame .38 as a pocket gun in the summer. So if there is a decent 9MM pocket carry gun out there then I wouldn't be opposed to that for summer carry. If it is fall, winter, or spring the XD 45C will be in the holster.

[.45 ACP NUt]

Because I can.

[.45 ACP NUt]

Originally Posted by .45 ACP NUt

Because I can.

Going back to my black powder days; "Because they don't make a .54 ACP"

[orangevol]

Plain and simple...bigger hole...better chance of survival.

[40packin]

Caliber schmaliber. You take a headshot from a 9 or a 45 and I'm willing to bet money you'll expire with either round. One will just be a tad bit more messy than the other.

And not to bring up Virginia Tech in a bad light, but that idiotic gunman killed the majority of his victims with head trauma from a .22 Walther pistol and a 9mm Glock 19. Unfortunately those two small calibers took over 30 lives, and I'm only bringing that up because 98% of all his victims were caught with head trauma from the two guns in question, either .22 or 9mm. The reason I bring this up is because he didn't have a .45, .38, or even a .40 but two smaller rounds, one rimfire one centerfire, and he created a downright horrible morning for the victims caught in that tragedy because of the shot placement. How big your carry weapon is means absolutely nothing. Where you're able to put those shots is what matters as we saw in the above situation even though I HATE to use that as an example. It's just very recent and something we're all familiar with.

[robinsre]

Originally Posted by 40packin

Caliber schmaliber. You take a headshot from a 9 or a 45 and I'm willing to bet money you'll expire with either round. One will just be a tad bit more messy than the other.

I don't think there are a whole lot of head shots in active firefights, at least not with a pistol. Matter of fact almost every trainer I've spoken to has always advised to shoot COM. Easier to hit and less bone to penetrate.

Aim small, miss small.