45acp ammo for black bear defense

[Myk9noseknows]

Originally Posted by fleshatomb@yahoo.com

Oh, I do want a .44 and/or .500mag. i jsut dont have cash right now. lol. I also want a RRA ar15 entry tactical, SA XD .40sw SC. and a .38 snub nose. on top of a new truck. lol. I have a small armory in my room, lot sof shot guns, but only one 12 guage (well 2 but the other is very old), and its for turkey hunting. I will definantly get a bigger handgun for the trail later on, and possibly a short barreled 12 gauge later too.

But i just now checked out the double tap ammo, and compared to the Extreme Shock stuff, it is 40fps slower, 22 pounds less energy. but the double tap is also 45 grains heavier i dont think ill even mess with the extreme shock stuff.

Extreme shock isn't going to do much to a bears hide. I'm assumin gyou're talking about their ex frangible? again, it doesn't have the mass of 230g so it will not penetrate. Until you can get a solid sidearm, load the .45 with heavy Double Tap, or at least CorBon +P rated ammo in 230 grains.

[Bree]

Originally Posted by Myk9noseknows

Pow'RBall's are DEFINITELY not the way to go. They simply do not have enough Mass to penetrate through the animals thick skin and dense bone mass. They may move fast, they they do not have enough weight to get the job done. Not to mention that the expansions tests I have seen show them to be least effective at keeping their expansion weight. Fine for humans, no no for a bear!

I wonder just how thick you think a black bear's hide is? I wear Black Bear mittens in the Fall on my motorcycle. They are made of pure Black bear hide with fur on. I have one in my hand right now as I am typing this.

Trust me... a Powerball will penetrate Black Bear hide at the distances he would be firing at which are very close range. It will cut through that hide like a hot knife through butter. Bear hide ain't elephant hide or buffalo hide. And we are talking about impact at 550 fps that penetrates 11.8" of ballistic gelatin with .679 expansion. That's one damn powerful whack.



As far as bone is concerned, he would be better off with the Corbon DPX that I originally suggested. The DPX exited a 15" gel block and is the better choice for a bear. But that doesn't mean the Powerball can't drop that bear. One round might not but a half dozen sure would go a long way towards ending that bear's stay on this planet. I'm sure if he chose to fire one, he would pop off a flurry of rounds into the bruin. And not all will hit bone.

When all is said and done the BEST protection against the bear is to wear good sneakers so you can run faster than the other fishermen.

[Johnny5]

As I mention in the other bear thread, you could also just load up on some 45 Super rounds. For the amount you'll actually shoot it, it should be okay in your gun.

[karagrig]

The black bear has thick elastic hide covered with thick matted fur. In addition under the hide there is a good amount of fat. Penetrating the hide is not the issue. The issue is the bullet staying together and going though the bear damaging the vitals. Not to mention the thick scapula and front leg bones. The 45 ACP is not a bear round, but if that all you have its better than nothing I guess. Check outht this following article http://www.gunblast.com/JoeRiekers-BearHunting.htm

[SpringfieldXD.40]

Originally Posted by karagrig

The black bear has thick elastic hide covered with thick matted fur. In addition under the hide there is a good amount of fat. Penetrating the hide is not the issue. The issue is the bullet staying together and going though the bear damaging the vitals. Not to mention the thick scapula and front leg bones. The 45 ACP is not a bear round, but if that all you have its better than nothing I guess. Check outht this following article http://www.gunblast.com/JoeRiekers-BearHunting.htm

Great info- Thanks for posting!

[the_gunman1]

Originally Posted by karagrig

The black bear has thick elastic hide covered with thick matted fur. In addition under the hide there is a good amount of fat. Penetrating the hide is not the issue. The issue is the bullet staying together and going though the bear damaging the vitals. Not to mention the thick scapula and front leg bones. The 45 ACP is not a bear round, but if that all you have its better than nothing I guess. Check outht this following article http://www.gunblast.com/JoeRiekers-BearHunting.htm

Thanks brother! I retract any and all statements I've made about the .45ACP as bear defence load. As far as I'm concerned a 300gr hard cast load from a .44mag carbine or revolver is definitelt What I would use at a minimum.

[exexpat93]

[Bree]

Nobody would disagree that there are better calibers than the .45 for this type of target. Everyone knows that from the get go.

Return to post #1 and review what the issue is... what the question actually being asked is. Fleshatomb can't afford a new gun. He ONLY has a .45. That is what he has to use to defend himself. So what should he do with the 45 that he has?

The guy wants to go fishing for trout near his home. He is worried that a West Virginia Black bear momma and cubs might come out of the woods and attack him.

He is being outfitted with increasingly powerful weapons way beyond and irrelevant to the question asked. Let's get back on point.

[Myk9noseknows]

My quote was the thick animal hide AND the dense bone mass. Just penetrating their hide is not going to stop a bear from attacking. I've seen powerball fragment and separate from it's jacket as well in testing. Again, it does not have enough MASS to be effective, the round is just too light. You want a heavy bullet, (heavy as possible), to inflict the most damage out of a handgun against a creature like this. It's just simple physics. Believe me, I like the PowerBall round, but only for human attackers. Penetrating 11" in ballistic geletin is WAY different than penetration through tough, thick bone mass. Ballistic Geletin has no medium like hyde, fur, bone, fat, cartledge. If this guy wants to get killed, then by all means, suggest a light weight PowerBall.

I also agree with the OC spray, that would be WAY more effective than a .45 again a bear.

Originally Posted by Bree

I wonder just how thick you think a black bear's hide is? I wear Black Bear mittens in the Fall on my motorcycle. They are made of pure Black bear hide with fur on. I have one in my hand right now as I am typing this.

Trust me... a Powerball will penetrate Black Bear hide at the distances he would be firing at which are very close range. It will cut through that hide like a hot knife through butter. Bear hide ain't elephant hide or buffalo hide. And we are talking about impact at 550 fps that penetrates 11.8" of ballistic gelatin with .679 expansion. That's one damn powerful whack.



As far as bone is concerned, he would be better off with the Corbon DPX that I originally suggested. The DPX exited a 15" gel block and is the better choice for a bear. But that doesn't mean the Powerball can't drop that bear. One round might not but a half dozen sure would go a long way towards ending that bear's stay on this planet. I'm sure if he chose to fire one, he would pop off a flurry of rounds into the bruin. And not all will hit bone.

When all is said and done the BEST protection against the bear is to wear good sneakers so you can run faster than the other fishermen.

[Bree]

What's your feeling about the DPX?