self defense round

[jtkratzer]

Originally Posted by Legend

Feeding issues due to cold possibly even...

Well, if I had a shoot a bear with a little 45ACP, or any other large animal like that, or some badguy wearing lots of winter clothing, I'd want a FMJ, not a hollowpoint.

so do you carry FMJs during the winter?

[the_gunman1]

Originally Posted by jtkratzer

can you explain this? i understand the use of FMJs for animals, but the rest?

by Legend:Feeding issues due to cold possibly even...

Well, if I had a shoot a bear with a little 45ACP, or any other large animal like that, or some badguy wearing lots of winter clothing, I'd want a FMJ, not a hollowpoint.

That explains alot of it right there.
Plus I do believe the 230gr .45ACP load to be a decent SD load where OP is not much of an issue. Since most likely the only thing I'll probably have to shoot would be a wild dog (I have killed several quickly and decisively with this load) I feel well healed with it.
As far as a BG wearing heavy clothing in the winter/cold months I feel better about having all the penetration possible.
In the warmer weather I'm likely to have HPs in my gun even out in the woods. I realize I worded it a little wrong when I said "Especially in the winter", when what I should have said was "only".

[Legend]

I'll carry FMJs camping due to the fact that I usually go target shooting the next morning anyway, and don't see much of a problem if something DOES over penetrate...

I never load up FMJ specifically for anything though. If I go bear hunting, I'll borrow a friends Ruger .460 instead of trusting in a 45acp round




If I was engaging however in work that was in frigid climates I'd be more apt to consider a FMJ load.

[the_gunman1]

Originally Posted by Legend

I'll carry FMJs camping due to the fact that I usually go target shooting the next morning anyway, and don't see much of a problem if something DOES over penetrate...

I never load up FMJ specifically for anything though. If I go bear hunting, I'll borrow a friends Ruger .460 instead of trusting in a 45acp round




If I was engaging however in work that was in frigid climates I'd be more apt to consider a FMJ load.

There isn't any bear here but if there was nothing less than my Moss 500 with slugs would be my companion with a .44mag minimum for backup.

[Legend]

Slugs from 12ga shotguns...

Doesn't get much more fun

[Powerman]

So can someone explain this for me. I am no balistics expert. When ever I look at energy, the lighter loads always have more. 185gr +P has more ft/lbs than 230 +p. I just assumed that the lighter round pushes faster and has more velocity to hit harder with the lighter bullet. Is that right?

So then why not run the lighter +p loads? 185, 200. 230 +P is slower and has less energy. Is energy not everything it is cracked up to be? I understand velocity and penetration, but I thought energy was the thing to look for. So I use Gold Dots. Don't mind the +P at all. And I bought lighter loads for that reason. Any help on this is most appreiciated.

[karagrig]

light bullets lose kinetic energy quicker and usually don't penetrate as much as the heavier slower bullets which retain kinetic energy for a longer period of time. For example a .22 caliber 40 grain bullet will be faster than a 70 grain bullet of the same caliber, coming out of the barrel. However the 40 grainer will have a effective range of around 200yrds, while the slower 70 grainer will keep going way past that. If I'm not mistaken the lighter, faster bullets (185 gr)are used to ensure that overpenetration is not an issue while at the same time they have enough energy to expand. I personally will not shoot anything lighter then 230 gr whether its an fmj or HP. Most of the times I load my 1911 mag 2 FMJs on the bottom followed by 5 HPs. Just like someone said, would you like to get hit by a VW bug going 50 mph or a dump truck going 40 mph?

[Powerman]

Originally Posted by karagrig

light bullets lose kinetic energy quicker and usually don't penetrate as much as the heavier slower bullets which retain kinetic energy for a longer period of time. For example a .22 caliber 40 grain bullet will be faster than a 70 grain bullet of the same caliber, coming out of the barrel. However the 40 grainer will have a effective range of around 200yrds, while the slower 70 grainer will keep going way past that. If I'm not mistaken the lighter, faster bullets (185 gr)are used to ensure that overpenetration is not an issue while at the same time they have enough energy to expand. I personally will not shoot anything lighter then 230 gr whether its an fmj or HP. Most of the times I load my 1911 mag 2 FMJs on the bottom followed by 5 HPs. Just like someone said, would you like to get hit by a VW bug going 50 mph or a dump truck going 40 mph?

Would it really matter.

As far as kinetics, I didn't really think of it like that. I see what you are saying. Thanks for the explanation. I also wondered how many mix and match their mags.

[fredj338]

I used to mix & match. It really doesn't matter & if you are looking for a certain performance from round 'x' & round 'z' is up next, you may find something lacking. I know LEOs that carry a spare mag. of FMJ in case they get someone behind more solid cover but stacking mags, nah.

[wombat13]

Originally Posted by karagrig

light bullets lose kinetic energy quicker and usually don't penetrate as much as the heavier slower bullets which retain kinetic energy for a longer period of time. For example a .22 caliber 40 grain bullet will be faster than a 70 grain bullet of the same caliber, coming out of the barrel. However the 40 grainer will have a effective range of around 200yrds, while the slower 70 grainer will keep going way past that.

There are two different things in play here. Kinetic energy and momentum.

Kinetic energy = (1/2)*mass*(velocity)^2

Momentum = mass*velocity

Note: * indicates multiplication and ^2 indicates squared (i.e., raised to the second power).

The greater the momentum the harder it is to stop an object; momentum is likely what karagrig was referencing in the post quoted above.

It is also important to note that recoil is the result of the principle of conservation of momentum. In other words, if you stand still holding a pistol there is no momentum (since there is no velocity). When you fire the pistol the bullet has momentum forward, so the pistol must have a momentum backward equal to the forward momentum of the bullet such that they cancel each other out.

Since KE increases with the square of velocity, decreasing mass of the bullet a bit while increasing the velocity an equivalent amount (i.e., keeping momentum constant) would yield an increase in KE. In other words, a lighter, faster bullet would have greater KE than a heavy slow bullet that has the same momentum (and therefore the same amount of recoil).

That's the Newtonian physics of it. What that all means for effectiveness of light/fast vs. heavy/slow I can't say.