Air Force dropping the M9 for .45ACP

[Cryogaijin]

Also, "pretty" don't win wars.

Nope, but in this case what makes it pretty makes it deadly (to the enemy) as well. I have a thing for advanced aerodynamics, and the Su-35 has them in spades. It'll outfly and outshoot a f15 pretty consistantly.

One purchase does not an Air Force make.

I dunno. . . if they purchased a thousand of them it would come damn close, no?

Just look at the A-10 and B-52

You were talking about 50s and 60s technology being a joke and you bring up our current examples of same?

[beergoggles]

Originally Posted by Cryogaijin

You were talking about 50s and 60s technology being a joke and you bring up our current examples of same?

In all fairness both of those aircraft have been modernized several times over their time in service.

[Cryogaijin]

Originally Posted by beergoggles

In all fairness both of those aircraft have been modernized several times over their time in service.

As have the planes the chinese fly. Thus making it a non-point.

The a-10 is still just about the slowest combat jet, flying one of the biggest guns ever sent aloft.

The b-52 still is a fairly slow bomber with a huge capacity that needs airsupperiority to actually work. Otherwise it is totally defenseless.

[ichy_trigger]

Dont forget about the AC-130 Spectre Gunship!
Talk about old, that one went from dropping people and supplies to just "dropping" people.

[orionshooter]

Originally Posted by M2XD

The USAF has a fair number of troops on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan at the moment. I know, many of them take the Combat Convoy Course Training at Camp Bullis, where I also do some training. They are taking up duties that the Army is just too shortmanned to fill

Of course the numbers are nowhere near as many as the Army (not sure about the Marines as they never stand still long enough to count), but consider that most "grunts" don't carry handguns as primary weapons whereas it is a lot more common in the USAF.

I have no doubt we have brave airmen and women on the ground in Iraq. The point I was making is that the USAF as a group does NOT have a pressing need for the uprgaded weaponry unless they happen to be stationed in the war zone itself. Here are the numbers on who is really doing the fighting and the dying over there.

Troop casualties by branch of service as of May 2, 2007

Army (2216)
Marines (909)
Navy (71)
Air Force (31)
Coast Guard (1)


Hell, there have been more journalists (91) killed then USAF personnel!

Again, no offense to the USAF - but spending this money on buying them .45's for out of theater operations is a dishonorable thing to do and it should never happen.

[M2XD]

Originally Posted by Cryogaijin

Nope, but in this case what makes it pretty makes it deadly (to the enemy) as well. I have a thing for advanced aerodynamics, and the Su-35 has them in spades. It'll outfly and outshoot a f15 pretty consistantly.

Well, where you might know something about aerodynamics, you know nothing about employing weapons systems and tactics if you think a Su-35 will beat a F-15 in combat! And don't go quoting the so-called results from the "COPE INDIA" exercises, as there is a bigger story behind those than can be discussed here...

And anyone who calls the Warthog ugly doesn't understand true beauty! I started my USAF career with the Hawg and 25 years later it is still one of the most lethal battlefield aircraft the USAF flies! Same goes for the AC-130.

And, back to the point, I don't disagree that the USAF has more pressing issues that wanting a new sidearm. I hated the M9 and prefer a .45; but it does the job well enough for what the USAF needs. I am sure this is all driven by CSAF T. Mike, who by the way carries a non-standard .357 when in theater!

Cheers! M2

[Brickboy240]

I borrowed a buddy's M9 and shot several WWB value packs of ammo through the thing.

Yes, the grip is big....its pretty big all over for a 9mm, but its far from junk. I found the M9 to be very reliable and pretty accurate in single action mode. Double action WAS a tad heavy.

Sure. if I had to stick to fmjs, I'd want a 45, too and I wish like hell SIG had won the contract with the excellent P226, but you could do ALOT worse than the 92FS/M9 Beretta.

- Brickboy240

[jeepinbanditrider]

Originally Posted by Brickboy240

I borrowed a buddy's M9 and shot several WWB value packs of ammo through the thing.

Yes, the grip is big....its pretty big all over for a 9mm, but its far from junk. I found the M9 to be very reliable and pretty accurate in single action mode. Double action WAS a tad heavy.

Sure. if I had to stick to fmjs, I'd want a 45, too and I wish like hell SIG had won the contract with the excellent P226, but you could do ALOT worse than the 92FS/M9 Beretta.

- Brickboy240

Like I said the ones out in the civie world are okay. I've never heard of anyone having problems with them.

A lot of our problems stem from them being issued to everyone and their mother and getting the crap kicked out of them pretty much every time. Out of all the issue weapons I've seen and people using them only a few including myself actually take decent care of them.

[eodtech]

Originally Posted by orionshooter

I have no doubt we have brave airmen and women on the ground in Iraq. The point I was making is that the USAF as a group does NOT have a pressing need for the uprgaded weaponry unless they happen to be stationed in the war zone itself. Here are the numbers on who is really doing the fighting and the dying over there.

Troop casualties by branch of service as of May 2, 2007

Army (2216)
Marines (909)
Navy (71)
Air Force (31)
Coast Guard (1)


Hell, there have been more journalists (91) killed then USAF personnel!

Again, no offense to the USAF - but spending this money on buying them .45's for out of theater operations is a dishonorable thing to do and it should never happen.

Wow... that's all I have to say. Thanks buddy. I know you said you mean no offense to the Air Force... But as an Air Force guy who is currently in Baghdad and about to leave on (yet another) route clearance mission downtown in a couple hours... Ummm... Yeah I could use a 45... And how do I get that? Only if the whole Air Force gets it. Just because I am an EOD tech I am not special in the Air Force's mind. We have a hard enough time justifying 150 bucks extra per month for demo pay...
I've been blown up in my vehicle twice in the past 5 months, and shot at more times then I can count...But it's OK... the Air Force isn't playing a combat role... We just like to pretend

[lobster_roboto]

Originally Posted by eodtech

Wow... that's all I have to say. Thanks buddy. I know you said you mean no offense to the Air Force... But as an Air Force guy who is currently in Baghdad and about to leave on (yet another) route clearance mission downtown in a couple hours... Ummm... Yeah I could use a 45... And how do I get that? Only if the whole Air Force gets it. Just because I am an EOD tech I am not special in the Air Force's mind. We have a hard enough time justifying 150 bucks extra per month for demo pay...
I've been blown up in my vehicle twice in the past 5 months, and shot at more times then I can count...But it's OK... the Air Force isn't playing a combat role... We just like to pretend

Well keep on pretending and you better do a really good job of it too.

Thanks by the way...

All military counts...