Self Defense Round - Non Human... - XDTalk Forums - Your HS2000/SA-XD Information Source!

KarolinaKid · 04-26-2007, 09:14 PM

This may be a weird one, but I was wondering what a good self defense round would be in 45 ACP for protecting oneself against large critters in the woods? I find myself occasionally (hiking, camping, etc.) among nature and short staffed (so to speak). I have walked up on a black bear and heard some "cats" at times. I am in the habit of carrying my XD 45 on such excursions, but wonder if the typical self defense round for the more upright urban predators would be less than optimal for the four-legged furry variety. I am not a hunter and realize a .357 mag or .44 mag would be a better caliber for such outings, but don't currently have either. Any thoughts on a 45 ACP round for such?

The Knight Of Light · 04-26-2007, 09:25 PM

Use 230 gr FMJ if you do that. Take extra magazines and get really good at 15 yard rapid fire hits in center of mass. If you take on a Black Bear with 45ACP you will need the extra mags.

jtkratzer · 04-26-2007, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarolinaKid

This may be a weird one, but I was wondering what a good self defense round would be in 45 ACP for protecting oneself against large critters in the woods? I find myself occasionally (hiking, camping, etc.) among nature and short staffed (so to speak). I have walked up on a black bear and heard some "cats" at times. I am in the habit of carrying my XD 45 on such excursions, but wonder if the typical self defense round for the more upright urban predators would be less than optimal for the four-legged furry variety. I am not a hunter and realize a .357 mag or .44 mag would be a better caliber for such outings, but don't currently have either. Any thoughts on a 45 ACP round for such?

for a bear, lots of them, whatever ya got, lots and lots of them.

the_gunman1 · 04-26-2007, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Knight Of Light

Use 230 gr FMJ if you do that. Take extra magazines and get really good at 15 yard rapid fire hits in center of mass. If you take on a Black Bear with 45ACP you will need the extra mags.

+10 penetration will be key here.

jednp · 04-26-2007, 09:57 PM

remember, animals seem to have more of an ability to continue fighting hard after being shot. They are much different than humans when it comes to that.

Obviously if you don't have another caliber, for now the .45 will have to do. So like others said, you have to make sure your shots count. Animals are very strong and have a lot of thick muscle mass. You're going to need good penetration to put a larger animal like a bear or cat down.

What type of area are you in when you see these animals? What is the attitude towards certain types of guns while camping or hiking? Is it common to see someone with a gun strapped to their hip? Do you ever see anyone else around with something other than a handgun?

The Knight Of Light · 04-26-2007, 10:01 PM

Oh I forgot to mention that when shooting a charging Black Bear, you need to aim low to avoid the tank like armor of the skull. If you can find a Bear target you need to make sure you shots are in the shoulder area or just under the nose. The skull will deflect bullets. Shooting just under the nose will allow the bullet to penetrate just above the breast bone and through the body. The shoulder area will take out the bear's mobility and turn the animal.

Big cats need to be hit very quickly because when they get their adrenaline dump they will be very hard to kill. Stopping big cats that are attacking takes a lot of practice with a hand gun because they present a very small target profile due to their slim body structure. Again shoulder and body should be the primary targets.

Take out the animal's mobility and it will turn giving you a better target profile.

chupacabrachus · 04-26-2007, 10:01 PM

.357 mag. is the minimum round I'd consider for black bear, or other 'large critters'. It's what I typically carry whilst hiking amongst bear and cougar. I'd like to get something "heavier", but it simply is not in the budget at this time. Ideally, a rifle should be used against bear or cougar for more reliable stopping power, but sometimes that is just impractical especially if you're lightweight backpacking.

the_gunman1 · 04-26-2007, 10:13 PM

Personally I'd recomend that if at all possible get a 4-5.5" .44 mag. I know money is tight{believe me I know!}but it just may save your bacon. For up to Black bear most any 240gr load should do the trick.

jednp · 04-26-2007, 10:16 PM

aside from a high power rifle, if I was able to have it where I was.. I'd want a shotgun full of slugs if i were in bear or cat territory.

the_gunman1 · 04-26-2007, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jednp

aside from a high power rifle, if I was able to have it where I was.. I'd want a shotgun full of slugs if i were in bear or cat territory.

That ain't bo bull sh.. there! I belive I'd alternate slugs and 00 buck but a 12 ga indeed!

04-26-2007, 09:14 PM	#1
KarolinaKid XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: TN (In my mind I'm goin' to Carolina...) Posts: 1,039	Self Defense Round - Non Human... This may be a weird one, but I was wondering what a good self defense round would be in 45 ACP for protecting oneself against large critters in the woods? I find myself occasionally (hiking, camping, etc.) among nature and short staffed (so to speak). I have walked up on a black bear and heard some "cats" at times. I am in the habit of carrying my XD 45 on such excursions, but wonder if the typical self defense round for the more upright urban predators would be less than optimal for the four-legged furry variety. I am not a hunter and realize a .357 mag or .44 mag would be a better caliber for such outings, but don't currently have either. Any thoughts on a 45 ACP round for such? __________________ The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it. - Sir George Bernard Shaw

04-26-2007, 09:25 PM	#2
The Knight Of Light XDTalk 5K Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Omaha, Nebraska Posts: 8,698 Blog Entries: 12	Use 230 gr FMJ if you do that. Take extra magazines and get really good at 15 yard rapid fire hits in center of mass. If you take on a Black Bear with 45ACP you will need the extra mags. __________________ No Matter Where You Go, There You Are. USPSA #L3077 What a great number!!! http://theknightoflight.blogspot.com/ Creator of TOP 'O' THE PAGE!!! Moose Fight

04-26-2007, 10:01 PM	#6
The Knight Of Light XDTalk 5K Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Omaha, Nebraska Posts: 8,698 Blog Entries: 12	Oh I forgot to mention that when shooting a charging Black Bear, you need to aim low to avoid the tank like armor of the skull. If you can find a Bear target you need to make sure you shots are in the shoulder area or just under the nose. The skull will deflect bullets. Shooting just under the nose will allow the bullet to penetrate just above the breast bone and through the body. The shoulder area will take out the bear's mobility and turn the animal. Big cats need to be hit very quickly because when they get their adrenaline dump they will be very hard to kill. Stopping big cats that are attacking takes a lot of practice with a hand gun because they present a very small target profile due to their slim body structure. Again shoulder and body should be the primary targets. Take out the animal's mobility and it will turn giving you a better target profile. __________________ No Matter Where You Go, There You Are. USPSA #L3077 What a great number!!! http://theknightoflight.blogspot.com/ Creator of TOP 'O' THE PAGE!!! Moose Fight

04-26-2007, 10:13 PM	#8
the_gunman1 XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Kentucky Posts: 1,019	Personally I'd recomend that if at all possible get a 4-5.5" .44 mag. I know money is tight{believe me I know!}but it just may save your bacon. For up to Black bear most any 240gr load should do the trick. __________________ Brian Freedom is expensive...pay up or shut up. "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

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04-26-2007, 09:57 PM	#5
jednp XDTalk 4K Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 4,691	remember, animals seem to have more of an ability to continue fighting hard after being shot. They are much different than humans when it comes to that. Obviously if you don't have another caliber, for now the .45 will have to do. So like others said, you have to make sure your shots count. Animals are very strong and have a lot of thick muscle mass. You're going to need good penetration to put a larger animal like a bear or cat down. What type of area are you in when you see these animals? What is the attitude towards certain types of guns while camping or hiking? Is it common to see someone with a gun strapped to their hip? Do you ever see anyone else around with something other than a handgun?

04-26-2007, 10:01 PM	#7
chupacabrachus XDTalk 3K Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,272	.357 mag. is the minimum round I'd consider for black bear, or other 'large critters'. It's what I typically carry whilst hiking amongst bear and cougar. I'd like to get something "heavier", but it simply is not in the budget at this time. Ideally, a rifle should be used against bear or cougar for more reliable stopping power, but sometimes that is just impractical especially if you're lightweight backpacking.

04-26-2007, 10:16 PM	#9
jednp XDTalk 4K Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 4,691	aside from a high power rifle, if I was able to have it where I was.. I'd want a shotgun full of slugs if i were in bear or cat territory.