Self Defense Round - Non Human...

[bb21]

Well I am not sure if anyone is reading this still but I thought I would add my $0.02. Aside from the one guy who had two bears charging at the same time I would have to disagree with the majority of you. 1st of all I have never heard of two Black Bear attacking at the same time so I would have to say that case is extremely rare, 2nd black bear are the most timid of all the bears, and the chance of being attacked is extremely rare. In the event of having a black bear charge you I would hope you would be aware of your surroundings to not be caught completely off guard allowing you to Yell and scream and hopefully avoid the conflict. I having shot a bear understand how unbelievably muscular they are, they are tough, but you all make black bear sound like 10 ft Kodiak's. They are much smaller and they are not impossible to kill, I have read more than once that more black bear have been killed in emergency situation with .22's and 9mm's than any other caliber. Most states it is legal to hunt bear with a .24 caliber rifle and even here in Colorado you can hunt them with handguns that don't produce as nearly as much muzzle energy as any .45 ACP load. 14 rounds of .45 ACP will more than likely be enough and if it is all you have your fine.
My Bro in Law kills all his Mt. Lions with a .22, they aren't that tough, the scary thing about them is how sneaky they are, they will more than likely get the drop on you. Be aware, be prepared and practice.
Good Luck and Be Safe!

[The Knight Of Light]

I missed the one about 2 bears.

As far as fighting them off is concerned, a 9 yeard old girl fended off one here about 10 years ago. I have been searching for the story. I know there was also a 93 year old woman that did the same thing. These were Black bears.

[Chewie146]

Well, again, the guy only has a .45 ACP. I don't know. I think maybe a 200 grainer in FMJ persuasion would be a little better. The higher speed may get you a bit more penetration without giving up too much weight. That being said, get yourself a Taurus .44 revolver ASAP if you're worried about it. The .45 might just do the job on a black bear, though. They're much smaller than the other NA bears, but still tough as heck, pound for pound. A good thing to keep in mind is that black bears are less likely to attack than the bigger ones, as well. Try not pissing him off, first. If all else fails, empty the magazine as fast and accurately as you can.

[rtparso]

I have the same input as bb21 anad knight. I used to work in northern NM and have encounterd bears many times. They almost always run faster then I can, but away from me. Had a sow with a cub stand her ground, I just backed away slowly and she calmed down. One time I was picking strawberrys with a GF on a hillside (at about 9000 ft) and a bear wandered into the clearing (we were, shall I say, keeping a low profile and not talking ). I just watched him for a minute until he saw us and then he wandered off. BTW my EX GF said she would never go camping with a crazy AH like me again.

[mickny60]

Interesting thread. Except for a few here,I think many perceive a black bear or mountain lion as a much bigger threat than they really pose. You're much more likely to run into a human enemy, than a bear or cougar that poses a threat. That being said, either of these animal are capable of attacking and killing a human, in very rare cases.
I've been fortunate at having taken 3 black bears in my life. One with rifle, one with bow, and one with an S&W mod.29 44 mag. The bow kill required one shot at 8 yards, while the 308 and 44 took 3 and 2 shots.Bears, even blackies can absorb a fair amount of energy. Lions are thin skinned and don't take much to kill. The problem with them is that if you didn't notice them stalking you ahead of time, by the time they've made that pounce, they'd be on you before you could draw your sidearm.
A 45 is probably not going to give you a one shot kill on a charging bear, but I'd be willing to bet that it would offer a pretty good deterent. I do recall reading a study on bear attacks, and the consensus was, that if you're attacked by a brown bear, and can't get up a tree, to drop and play dead, and the bear may leave you alone after a couple of swats,as you're no longer a threat to it.On the other hand, if you're the target of an unprovoked attack by a black bear,yell,scream and fight back in any way you can. It seems that most black bear attacks are predatory in nature,and the animal intends to eat you.
Pepper spray is a good idea, and reminds me of an old story I heard about how effective it is. Rangers in the Alaskan backcountry routinely warned backpacking tourist to attach little bells to their packs, to warn bears that you were coming, and in case of a confrontation, always have a can of pepper spray on your belt. But the best defense was avoiding bears by watching for their sign in the area, usually scat.How do you know if it's bear scat you've found? Easy, it smells like pepper and is full of little bells.

[deepdiver]

I came pretty close to black bears a few times in Canada while camping and have been able to slowly back away and they did the same. Slow and non-threatening. If I was going to carry ammo for my XD45 for such an eventuality going badly, I would probably want DPX and FMJ -- actually, I tried one mag alternating it and it worked fine. If I was going to carry it in case of small/med bear I would want at least 3 full hi cap mags with me (40 rds should at least slow it down).

[jtkratzer]

Originally Posted by bb21

Well I am not sure if anyone is reading this still but I thought I would add my $0.02. Aside from the one guy who had two bears charging at the same time I would have to disagree with the majority of you. 1st of all I have never heard of two Black Bear attacking at the same time so I would have to say that case is extremely rare, 2nd black bear are the most timid of all the bears, and the chance of being attacked is extremely rare. In the event of having a black bear charge you I would hope you would be aware of your surroundings to not be caught completely off guard allowing you to Yell and scream and hopefully avoid the conflict. I having shot a bear understand how unbelievably muscular they are, they are tough, but you all make black bear sound like 10 ft Kodiak's. They are much smaller and they are not impossible to kill, I have read more than once that more black bear have been killed in emergency situation with .22's and 9mm's than any other caliber. Most states it is legal to hunt bear with a .24 caliber rifle and even here in Colorado you can hunt them with handguns that don't produce as nearly as much muzzle energy as any .45 ACP load. 14 rounds of .45 ACP will more than likely be enough and if it is all you have your fine.
My Bro in Law kills all his Mt. Lions with a .22, they aren't that tough, the scary thing about them is how sneaky they are, they will more than likely get the drop on you. Be aware, be prepared and practice.
Good Luck and Be Safe!

agreed, black bears are very timid and typically are more afraid of people than they are looking at you for lunch. i highly doubt that black bears will hunt people as a food source. i know you didn't say that, but someone earlier did and I have a very hard time believing that black bears are man killers and people hunters. if they were, we'd have a lot more fatalities during deer season or spring gobbler.

i heard about a woman a few months ago in a northern remote area in canada that fought off a polar bear without a weapon to save her kids who were playing hockey on an outdoor rink.

i think with black bears, we typically stumble across each others' paths more so than bears being out there hunting us. the only times i've come across bears where they knew i was there, they ran like there was no tomorrow. i've had bears walk under my tree stand during deer season, and didn't know i was there, but anytime i'm on the ground and come across a bear, it bolts. it startled me the one time i didn't know the bear was there and it took off through the woods, that was while it was still pretty dark walking through the woods to my stand on opening day of deer season.

[jednp]

black bears may be timid, but they have attacked for no reason before. it doesn't happen often, but there was one last year I believe where a 300 lb black bear attacked a young girl and killed her.

I think the best policy to take with any wild animal, especially large dangerous animals, is to assume that they are all capable of of attacking you as a source of food.

[jtkratzer]

Originally Posted by jednp

black bears may be timid, but they have attacked for no reason before. it doesn't happen often, but there was one last year I believe where a 300 lb black bear attacked a young girl and killed her.

I think the best policy to take with any wild animal, especially large dangerous animals, is to assume that they are all capable of of attacking you as a source of food.

right, better safe than sorry, and the "for no reason" part, we'll never really know. but at the same time, you don't need to piss yourself everytime you're in the woods and think you hear/see/smell a black bear.

[the_gunman1]

I believe a .44mag carbine and a good .45{I would probably use a +P 230gr FMJFP} would get any one through in black bear country. For two and four legged animals. I just talked to my brother out weast on the phone a little while ago and he has killed {while hunting} 4 black bears ranging from 237lbs-298.5lbs with a .357mag S&W with a 6" barrel and 180 grain loads. In that case my statement above would give me that warm fuzzy feeling just fine.