Anyone Using Militec-1 For Lubrication

[Tempest]

If it's so bad why are they issuing it to my buddies in Iraq for all their weapons

Please confirm this. Is it being given to them by their CO/Sgt? What units? Militec is donating product, that does not mean that it is being issued.

Where are you getting your information that Militec1 contains chlorine much less a level that is high enough to cause rust and metal fatigue problems?

From the MSDS on their website:

Hazardous Decomposition or Byproducts
When burning, may form carbon monoxide (Typical of organic lubricants) and hydrogen chloride

So where else would the chlorine come from? HCl is very powerful acid that can eat metal quickly. All chlorinated products have the potential to make it. It mostly comes down to the inhibitor package and the halogen/base oil ratio and molecule size.

I have a paper written by the formulator of FP-10 (a properly formulated chlorinated parrafin oil) that expalins a lot (though not all) of what I am saying. It is in PDF so I cannot post it. Anyone that would like a copy, please PM me your E-mail and I will send you a copy. I have other links but I will have to get them together which I don't have time for right now. I will try and get them tomorrow.

Furthermore, I saw no indication that soybean oil was used as an inhibitor or otherwise.

Epoxidized soybean oil is a typical way of dealing with Chlorinated Paraffin. Take a look at this link: http://theoildrop.server101.com/foru...e=0#Post743078

Pay attention to what Bruce381 says (who does not like CP products). This man owns his own lubricant company and has been around.

For those that want to read, I suggest going over to 1911forum and searching for posts by "Firepower". You will get a lesson in lubes.

[Tempest]

Just found the link that shows the chlorine content in Militec.
http://p102.ezboard.com/ffirepowerfp...picID=35.topic

This is an old (now dead) site from the formulator of FP10 (he is no longer with MPC). For what it's worth, MPC (the makers of FP10) make MT10, an additive product also. The difference is that they do not recommend it as a stand alone product:
http://p102.ezboard.com/ffirepowerfp...picID=28.topic

Note: the links no longer work on that forum. Have to go now.

[griz]

Well that settles it then! I'm a happy camper! I'm sending this thread into Militec along with my receipt for my XD which means they owe me a new pistola due to deceptive claims and advertising!

Anyone interested in buying a near new XD45 Service in BiTone finish that's been completely ruined with Militec1?

[Ian Wendt]

Oh right. That's an unbiased source. The maker of a competing product. Yup, that's totally unbiased...
Pfft.

I'd like to see one substantiated claim, based on testing by an impartial third party that Militec has all these dangers that you claim. I've used it myself on my own gun for almost a year. I know people that have literally used it since it became available and there are tons of people on active duty in the Middle East that use this stuff on a daily basis. It has an NSN so they can requisition it and they do! Over and over again. With that wide a customer base, and a customer base that has a very heavy usage of their firearms, problems as severe as you intimate, would have cropped up years ago.

[XD 40S&W]

That BS! I been using it for 6 month now and and I have not seen any rust whatsoever on my XD..even when sitting in the police evidence locker for 3 month stright! Don't believe the HYPE till you use it!

[Stinger1]

I've been using Militec for over a year now and it's my main source of lubrication. I completely recommend it. I however have not used the Militec rust preventative, I feel no need living in Nevada. I coat the pistol with Militec then wipe it down and when I''m finished I then wipe my pistol down with a silicone cloth. Proper care of firearms regardless of the climate is paramount. If you think you can rely on something to prevent rust in a humid climate without constant inspection and reaplication, it won't work. Also most gun mfg's now use better finishes on their weapons and state that as a point of sale. However I've read threads where these same firearms have shown sign of rust?????? Proper and regular care is the key and most products (some better then others) will do the job if maintained.

RC

[Tempest]

Oh right. That's an unbiased source. The maker of a competing product. Yup, that's totally unbiased

I never said it was an unbiased source. That's why I disclosed who said it. The fact that he has a similar product and doesn't not advocate it's use as a stand alone product helps to build credibility. Also, from reading his posts, everything that have I looked up has checked out. That, again, builds credibility.

The Militec MSDS states that it has chlorine. Not directly of course, you have to read deep into it to find it. Notice also that there is only ONE MSDS for their entire line, and there is no product differentiation between the automotive additives, and gun products. It's all the same stuff.

So, the additive and the stand alone product are the same. The dosage rates of Militec (as an additive) are similar to that of MPC's MT-10. A technical paper: http://www.fp10.com/MT10Comparison.pdf on MPC's shows MT-10 to be ~%31 chlorine. Makes the %28 stated by Mr. Fennell for Militec pretty reasonable, eh? In order to have any affect as an additive (being diluted in another base oil), the % has to be high.

A post by Mr. Fennell from 1911forum: http://forums.1911forum.com/showthre...hlight=militec

Militec-1 is a long chain chlorinated synthetic "alpha olefin".
Is that bad? No, not at all.
Is it, or was it designed for weapons lubrication, cleaning, or preservation? No. It was, and still is, a synthetic extreme pressure additive designed to be used in other base oils and oil blends, for use in engines, transmissions, gear boxes, etc. (Originally, this family of compounds, chlorinated paraffins and chlorinated alpha-olefins, were confined to the metal working industry and the manufacture of foam rubber and like components.)
It does not contain the array of necessary base oil(s) and other additives that would qualify it as a stand alone lubricant, and far from a full bodied and specifically designed weapons CLP.
It doesn't matter who is using it in the government and law enforcement or on what they are using it on, the facts still remain as such. You will get good short term "extreme pressure" results, but the aspects of cleaning and preserving are not quite there.

The molecular bond of which you speak is a "buzzword" that is used widely in the "Miracle Lube" paradigm. In actuality, the process that is occurring is known as "boundary film surface halogenation", which uses heat as a catalyst to free and impart the chlorinated component of the long chain synthetic hydrocarbon molecule, to the metal surface to form a boundary film by attaching to the iron and forming Ferric Chloride, as the basic component. This is not so much molecular bonding as it is chemical reactivity by an acid-halide that increases surface density by reacting with the iron anions on the metal surfaces.

Militec-1 is a good product when used properly (additive) and in the right places.

Can't find where he talked specifiacly about Militec using epoxidized soybean oil, but in the paper I have he does say that it is a typical part of these lubricants. Backed up by Bruce in the BITOG thread, I feel comfortable that the carrier is indeed soybean oil.

Provides excellent rust protection

From Sig forum: http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc.../795108465/p/1

Chlorine content too high.

If Militec is working for you, use it. I'm not.

[Ian Wendt]

Never thought of Militec as a cleaner. Never used it as such. And again, all this hullabaloo about it being bad for your gun is just that... Hullabaloo. I've seen NO evidence to indicate that it causes damage to the weapons. Neither have the many people that use guns lubed with Militec. Hell, I've used it on my knives, even carbon steel ones for years too and seen no evidence of pitting, cracking or other surface damage.
Yes, I've seen the rust tests. I'm not using it as a protectant. I'm using it as a lube. And for that, it works better than anything else I've used. The inside of my barrel is nice and shiny by the way. No rust.

Your revered Mr. Fennell is just about the most unreliable source I can imagine, short of getting lube advice from Big Bird. I noticed in that thread that he also takes potshots at Break Free CLP.

If you don't like the product for whatever reason, fine. But spreading unsubstantiated FUD is not good form.

[Tempest]

Your revered Mr. Fennell is just about the most unreliable source I can imagine, short of getting lube advice from Big Bird

He is (or was) a lubrication engineer. Was he trying to sell a product...for sure. That's why I didn't believe him either, but used the topics and terminology in his posts to research. I would encourage everybody to do the same. So far, what he has said is right on. If you choose not to listen to what he has to say, fair enough. That's why I tried to show other sources/rational in my last post that did not deal with what he has to say.

The only reason I posted his comments are so people can understand what is going on with these products and how they work. There is no magic in any of this stuff, it's simply science.

I noticed in that thread that he also takes potshots at Break Free CLP.

There are at least 2 articles on the Militec website that slam CLP. One evens blames it for the lost lives of soldiers. THAT is low. I would link to them, but you can only link to their home page.

I have several links to support my position and used information from the Militec site itself. I have tried to rationally show my logic and way of thinking on the matter. No one else has provided anything to refute what I am saying other than it works for them. I think my position on this is hardly unsubstantiated.

[Mercmar]

I've had some friendly, informative exchanges with George Fennell. However, I wouldn't consider George's opinions on his competitors as unbiased. George posted on 1911 forum that Mobil 1 wasn't good for firearms, because it was designed to lubricate under pressure created by the movement of the crankshaft. THAT, my friends, is total b.s. (And anybody who knows anything about internal combustion engines knows that.)

I wish, though, that I had a dollar for every "miracle" crankcase additive that claimed the "molecular bonding" silliness. Please show me one "miracle" additive that doesn't make such a claim!

I use Mobil 1, 15W50, exclusively, on my firearms. It won't cook off, and it stays where you put it. (Oh, yeah, what makes Mobil 1 so great is the way it bonds with metal on a molecular level!)