XD45 Tactical in the hands of US troops? - XDTalk Forums - Your HS2000/SA-XD Information Source!

AKM · 03-07-2006, 08:19 PM

With more and more US units going back to 45ACP, I can think of no better pistol than the XD45 Tactical for adoption by our military. Does everything any of the other 45ACP pistols can do, and does it for less money.

Apdl · 03-07-2006, 08:26 PM

do you think that the millitary switching has anything to do with SA XD-45ACP? when is the millitary changing?

AKM · 03-07-2006, 09:09 PM

Our SOG units (which can carry pretty much whatever they want) are using 45ACP. The regular military is making noises about switching back as well. If they do (and I firmly believe they should) there should be a selection process like there was when we switched to 9mm. I can't think of anything out there that would beat the XD45 Tac.

tgom222 · 03-08-2006, 04:02 AM

If the military did make the switch, the price of .45acp ammo could drop with the ramp up of production. That would be nice.

dosei · 03-08-2006, 04:12 AM

Joint Combat Pistol (JCP)
The US Special Operations Command [USSOCOM] issued a solicitation in August 2005 to obtain commercially available non-developmental item (NDI) Joint Combat Pistol (JCP) system, Caliber .45 (ACP). The Program (which absorbed an earlier Future Handgun System program) will use full and open competition to fulfill the JCP requirement. The JCP will be delivered in accordance with specification entitled "Performance Specification Joint Combat Pistol" to be provided with issuance of the solicitation. Two configurations of the pistol will be required. One configuration will have no external safety and the other configuration will have an external safety.

The Combat Pistol System consists of: a Caliber .45 pistol and its ancillary equipment including: Magazines (standard and high-capacity); Suppressor Attachment Kit for operation of the pistol with and without sound suppressor; Holster; Magazine Holder (standard and high-capacity); Cleaning Kit; and Operator's Manual.

The contract type will be an Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) issuing Firm-Fixed Price (FFP) delivery orders. The contract period of performance shall be Five (5)years with an option to extend for an additional Five (5) years. The Minimum Quantity is 24 each Engineering Test Units (ETU's), 12 each with external manual safety and 12 each without external manual safety. The estimated Maximum quantities are: 45,000 no external safety JCP configuration and 600,000 JCP with the external safety configuration; 649,000 Holsters; 96,050 Standard Capacity Magazines; 192,099 High Capacity Magazines; 667,000 Magazine Holders; 132,037 Suppressor attachment kits; Provisioning Item Order, Technical Data Package and associated Data.

The solicitation will require, free of charge to the government, delivery of 24 each product samples along with a concise written proposal all due on the closing date stated in the solicitation. The 24-each product sample from the successful offeror may be accepted as the Minimum Quantity. Any subsequent delivery orders for JCP's will order between 50 each and 200,000 each with a maximum monthly delivery rate of 5,000 each. Any subsequent orders for the ancillary items will require delivery to commence within 60 days after receipt of order. The product samples and written proposal will be evaluated on a best value basis and the Government will reserve the right to award to other than the lowest priced offeror and other than the highest technically rated offeror. Product samples from unsuccessful offerors will be returned to the offerors upon request and at the offeror's expense. The Government cannot guarantee the condition of the product samples after testing.

The JCP shall have a Mean Rounds Between Stoppage (MRBS) of 2000 rounds (Threshold) and 5000 rounds (Objective) firing A475 and A483 ammunition. The JCP shall have a Mean Rounds Between Failure (MRBF) of 5000 rounds (T) and 10,000 rounds (O) firing A475 and A483 ammunition. The weapon shall function reliably when operated in extreme environments.

When fired from a rest, at a range of 50 meters, the mean radius of a 10-shot group fired from the JCP shall not be greater than A) 3.15 inches or B)1.8 inches over baseline ammunition performance, whichever is less (T). Baseline ammunition performance is defined as the average mean radius plus two sample standard deviations of three 10-shot groups fired from a test barrel at 50m.

The JCP shall have a service life of 20,000 rounds (T), greater than 20,000 (O), using A475 .45 ACP Ball, and/or A483 .45 ACP match ammunition. The JCP should be capable of a service life of 20,000 rounds when firing 5% AA18 .45 +P ammunition (O). Receiver service life shall be defined as a receiver that is at the end of its usable life cycle.

The JCP shall have a standard magazine capacity of no less than eight [8] rounds (T), greater than eight [8] rounds (O) of .45 ACP ammunition. The JCP shall also have a high-capacity magazine of no less than ten [10] rounds (T), fifteen [15] rounds (O), of .45 ACP ammunition.

The JCP shall have a rigid attachment point for a lanyard (T). The JCP lanyard attachment point shall not interfere with the JCP control features or magazine unloading and reloading, and shall minimize snag hazard (T).

The JCP shall have an integral MIL-STD-1913 rail for the attachment of accessories (T). The rail shall be located forward of the trigger guard on the lower portion of the frame (T).

The JCP surface finish shall be non-reflective, resistant to peeling, flaking, and chipping, and require a minimum of operator preventive maintenance (T). Internal coatings should be lubricious/low friction mitigating the use of lubricants (O). Non-metallic components shall be fungus and battlefield chemical resistant (T). JCP materials and coatings shall protect the pistol from degradation in all climates and geographical areas including maritime, coastal, desert, tropical jungle, arctic, urban areas, and mountain environments (T). The materials and coatings shall minimize the attraction of dust and contamination (T).

The JCP frame and JCP holster shall be delivered in Color #30118 (Flat, Dark Earth), Per FED-STD-595B (T). The barrel and slide shall be anti-reflective, matte grey or matte black finish comparable to FED-STD-595B series #36000 or #37000 colors (T).

The JCP length, with standard barrel, shall be less than 9.65 inches (T). The JCP width shall be less than 1.53 inches (T).

The JCP shall function in double action/single action (DA/SA) or double-action only (DAO) including Striker-Fired Action (SFA) (T). The JCP should have a modular action mechanism that allows reconfiguration at the unit level without modification to the weapon's major assemblies (O).

All DA/SA pistols shall have a consistent trigger pull of eight to ten [8-10] pounds on Double Action, and a consistent trigger pull of four to six [4-6] pounds on Single Action and all DAO pistols shall have a trigger pull of five to eight [5-8] pounds (T). All pistols shall have a trigger pull that is consistent within one [1] pound from average pull (T). When pressure is applied to the JCP trigger and then released, the trigger shall reset to its forward-most position, even if the pistol is not fired (T). The operator shall be capable of pulling the trigger, without shifting the firing grip.

The JCP shall allow the magazine, empty or with any number of rounds loaded, to drop free of the magazine well when the magazine release is activated (T). The magazine shall fall free when the pistol grip is held at any angle from 0 degrees vertical (normal firing attitude) to 45 degrees from vertical (T). The magazine shall also be capable of manual extraction when held at any other angle (T). The pistol shall be capable of firing with a chambered round and without a magazine in the magazine well (T). The pistol shall reliably fire when the pistol has a round in the chamber and a fully loaded magazine is inserted with the slide fully forward and the pistol is fired (T). The operator shall be capable of operating the magazine release with the firing hand (T). The operator should be capable of operating the magazine release without shifting the firing grip (O).

The JCP shall be operable for a range of operators from the 5th to 95th percentile per section 3.6.3. To aid in this, the JCP should incorporate a modular grip adjustment system to provide enhanced ergonomics (O).

The JCP sights shall provide rapid target acquisition and shall be optimized for snag-resistant rapid deployment (T). The JCP sights shall be replaceable at the organizational level (T). The JCP sights shall be drift-adjustable for windage (T). The JCP sights shall be self-illuminating for low light situations without ambient or external light source "charging" (T).

The JCP shall be chambered for standard .45 Auto per ANSI/SAAMI Z299.3-1993. The JCP shall safely fire all .45 caliber ACP cartridges referenced in paragraph 2.2.1 of this performance specification (T). Each JCP shall be capable of withstanding the firing of a M1 Cartridge, .45 ACP High Pressure Test detailed in MIL-C-60163 and marked accordingly (T). The pistol shall have proper headspace for .45 ACP cartridges (T).

The JCP shall be capable of quick and easy field stripping, without the use of tools, for normal care and cleaning in the field (T). The weapon shall be incapable of improper assembly at the fieldstrip level to the detriment of safety (T). Takedown pins should be captive (O). All component parts or inseparable subassemblies shall be 100% interchangeable between pistols without hand or machine fitting (T). Interchange of parts of like condition shall not adversely affect safety, functioning, reliability or accuracy of the pistol (T).

Operational suitability and effectiveness of the JCP is based on the ability of the JCP system to meet all stated threshold and objective requirements as well as Operators' (subjective and objective) determination of operational suitability and effectiveness. Factors include but are not limited to overall reliability, controllability/shootability as measured by live-fire hit scores and engagement times while shooting with two hands and single handed (both strong and weak hand), ease of reload and malfunction clearing, ergonomics, snag free operation, and ease of maintainability while in the field (T). The JCP shall be durable, and easily maintainable in the field (T). It shall be usable by right or left-handed operators (T). The pistol shall be operable by personnel wearing anti-contact protection (cold weather, scuba, or Chemical, Biological, Radiological gloves) (T). The pistol shall not present any sharp edges or pinch points that could damage the clothing or protective equipment of the soldier or injure the soldier (T). The JCP design shall allow the Operator to immediately clear a malfunction without the use of tools (T).

**jalley** · 03-08-2006, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apdl

do you think that the millitary switching has anything to do with SA XD-45ACP? when is the millitary changing?

Trust me, the military is not considering switching back to .45ACP becuase springfield came out with an XD45.

dosei · 03-08-2006, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jalley

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apdl

do you think that the millitary switching has anything to do with SA XD-45ACP? when is the millitary changing?

Trust me, the military is not considering switching back to .45ACP becuase springfield came out with an XD45.

I am sure you are correct. In fact, I think it is the exact other way around. I suspect Springfield came out with the XD in 45 acp because of the JCP program.

whitenack · 03-08-2006, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dosei

I am sure you are correct. In fact, I think it is the exact other way around. I suspect Springfield came out with the XD in 45 acp because of the JCP program.

No, I'd say SA came out with the .45acp because it is a popular round.

Saying that SA came out with the .45 because of the JCP program would be like saying that Glock came out with a G21 for the JCP program.

Not saying that the XD45 caused the JCP, just saying that the JCP didn't cause the XD45.

Apdl · 03-08-2006, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dosei

Quote:

Originally Posted by jalley

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apdl

do you think that the millitary switching has anything to do with SA XD-45ACP? when is the millitary changing?

Trust me, the military is not considering switching back to .45ACP becuase springfield came out with an XD45.

I am sure you are correct. In fact, I think it is the exact other way around. I suspect Springfield came out with the XD in 45 acp because of the JCP program.

i ment what dosei said

Apdl · 03-08-2006, 06:37 AM

oops double post

03-07-2006, 08:19 PM	#1
AKM XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phoenix Posts: 1,511	XD45 Tactical in the hands of US troops? With more and more US units going back to 45ACP, I can think of no better pistol than the XD45 Tactical for adoption by our military. Does everything any of the other 45ACP pistols can do, and does it for less money. __________________ Liviu Librescu - În veci pomenirea lui. U.S. Army/Marine Snipers - Making the World a Better Place, 175 grains at a time.

03-07-2006, 08:26 PM	#2
Apdl XDTalk 2K Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Burnsville, MN Posts: 2,354	do you think that the millitary switching has anything to do with SA XD-45ACP? when is the millitary changing? __________________ "He took off running, and we caught him, and he just kept resisting. So we just kept whipping his ass." -HulkXD "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein If you are not part of the solution you are part of the precipitate Springfield XD-9 TOTAL COUNT 8206 Daily Carry Springfield 1911 Loaded Target 9mm Walther P22... needs bigger mag Ruger 10/22 Carbine Remington 700 SPS Tactical .308 Win EBR Build in progress

03-08-2006, 06:37 AM	#10
Apdl XDTalk 2K Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Burnsville, MN Posts: 2,354	oops double post __________________ "He took off running, and we caught him, and he just kept resisting. So we just kept whipping his ass." -HulkXD "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein If you are not part of the solution you are part of the precipitate Springfield XD-9 TOTAL COUNT 8206 Daily Carry Springfield 1911 Loaded Target 9mm Walther P22... needs bigger mag Ruger 10/22 Carbine Remington 700 SPS Tactical .308 Win EBR Build in progress

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03-07-2006, 09:09 PM	#3
AKM XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phoenix Posts: 1,511	Our SOG units (which can carry pretty much whatever they want) are using 45ACP. The regular military is making noises about switching back as well. If they do (and I firmly believe they should) there should be a selection process like there was when we switched to 9mm. I can't think of anything out there that would beat the XD45 Tac. __________________ Liviu Librescu - În veci pomenirea lui. U.S. Army/Marine Snipers - Making the World a Better Place, 175 grains at a time.

03-08-2006, 04:02 AM	#4
tgom222 XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Bloomington, IN Posts: 138	If the military did make the switch, the price of .45acp ammo could drop with the ramp up of production. That would be nice.

03-08-2006, 04:12 AM	#5
dosei XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 296	Joint Combat Pistol (JCP) The US Special Operations Command [USSOCOM] issued a solicitation in August 2005 to obtain commercially available non-developmental item (NDI) Joint Combat Pistol (JCP) system, Caliber .45 (ACP). The Program (which absorbed an earlier Future Handgun System program) will use full and open competition to fulfill the JCP requirement. The JCP will be delivered in accordance with specification entitled "Performance Specification Joint Combat Pistol" to be provided with issuance of the solicitation. Two configurations of the pistol will be required. One configuration will have no external safety and the other configuration will have an external safety. The Combat Pistol System consists of: a Caliber .45 pistol and its ancillary equipment including: Magazines (standard and high-capacity); Suppressor Attachment Kit for operation of the pistol with and without sound suppressor; Holster; Magazine Holder (standard and high-capacity); Cleaning Kit; and Operator's Manual. The contract type will be an Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) issuing Firm-Fixed Price (FFP) delivery orders. The contract period of performance shall be Five (5)years with an option to extend for an additional Five (5) years. The Minimum Quantity is 24 each Engineering Test Units (ETU's), 12 each with external manual safety and 12 each without external manual safety. The estimated Maximum quantities are: 45,000 no external safety JCP configuration and 600,000 JCP with the external safety configuration; 649,000 Holsters; 96,050 Standard Capacity Magazines; 192,099 High Capacity Magazines; 667,000 Magazine Holders; 132,037 Suppressor attachment kits; Provisioning Item Order, Technical Data Package and associated Data. The solicitation will require, free of charge to the government, delivery of 24 each product samples along with a concise written proposal all due on the closing date stated in the solicitation. The 24-each product sample from the successful offeror may be accepted as the Minimum Quantity. Any subsequent delivery orders for JCP's will order between 50 each and 200,000 each with a maximum monthly delivery rate of 5,000 each. Any subsequent orders for the ancillary items will require delivery to commence within 60 days after receipt of order. The product samples and written proposal will be evaluated on a best value basis and the Government will reserve the right to award to other than the lowest priced offeror and other than the highest technically rated offeror. Product samples from unsuccessful offerors will be returned to the offerors upon request and at the offeror's expense. The Government cannot guarantee the condition of the product samples after testing. The JCP shall have a Mean Rounds Between Stoppage (MRBS) of 2000 rounds (Threshold) and 5000 rounds (Objective) firing A475 and A483 ammunition. The JCP shall have a Mean Rounds Between Failure (MRBF) of 5000 rounds (T) and 10,000 rounds (O) firing A475 and A483 ammunition. The weapon shall function reliably when operated in extreme environments. When fired from a rest, at a range of 50 meters, the mean radius of a 10-shot group fired from the JCP shall not be greater than A) 3.15 inches or B)1.8 inches over baseline ammunition performance, whichever is less (T). Baseline ammunition performance is defined as the average mean radius plus two sample standard deviations of three 10-shot groups fired from a test barrel at 50m. The JCP shall have a service life of 20,000 rounds (T), greater than 20,000 (O), using A475 .45 ACP Ball, and/or A483 .45 ACP match ammunition. The JCP should be capable of a service life of 20,000 rounds when firing 5% AA18 .45 +P ammunition (O). Receiver service life shall be defined as a receiver that is at the end of its usable life cycle. The JCP shall have a standard magazine capacity of no less than eight [8] rounds (T), greater than eight [8] rounds (O) of .45 ACP ammunition. The JCP shall also have a high-capacity magazine of no less than ten [10] rounds (T), fifteen [15] rounds (O), of .45 ACP ammunition. The JCP shall have a rigid attachment point for a lanyard (T). The JCP lanyard attachment point shall not interfere with the JCP control features or magazine unloading and reloading, and shall minimize snag hazard (T). The JCP shall have an integral MIL-STD-1913 rail for the attachment of accessories (T). The rail shall be located forward of the trigger guard on the lower portion of the frame (T). The JCP surface finish shall be non-reflective, resistant to peeling, flaking, and chipping, and require a minimum of operator preventive maintenance (T). Internal coatings should be lubricious/low friction mitigating the use of lubricants (O). Non-metallic components shall be fungus and battlefield chemical resistant (T). JCP materials and coatings shall protect the pistol from degradation in all climates and geographical areas including maritime, coastal, desert, tropical jungle, arctic, urban areas, and mountain environments (T). The materials and coatings shall minimize the attraction of dust and contamination (T). The JCP frame and JCP holster shall be delivered in Color #30118 (Flat, Dark Earth), Per FED-STD-595B (T). The barrel and slide shall be anti-reflective, matte grey or matte black finish comparable to FED-STD-595B series #36000 or #37000 colors (T). The JCP length, with standard barrel, shall be less than 9.65 inches (T). The JCP width shall be less than 1.53 inches (T). The JCP shall function in double action/single action (DA/SA) or double-action only (DAO) including Striker-Fired Action (SFA) (T). The JCP should have a modular action mechanism that allows reconfiguration at the unit level without modification to the weapon's major assemblies (O). All DA/SA pistols shall have a consistent trigger pull of eight to ten [8-10] pounds on Double Action, and a consistent trigger pull of four to six [4-6] pounds on Single Action and all DAO pistols shall have a trigger pull of five to eight [5-8] pounds (T). All pistols shall have a trigger pull that is consistent within one [1] pound from average pull (T). When pressure is applied to the JCP trigger and then released, the trigger shall reset to its forward-most position, even if the pistol is not fired (T). The operator shall be capable of pulling the trigger, without shifting the firing grip. The JCP shall allow the magazine, empty or with any number of rounds loaded, to drop free of the magazine well when the magazine release is activated (T). The magazine shall fall free when the pistol grip is held at any angle from 0 degrees vertical (normal firing attitude) to 45 degrees from vertical (T). The magazine shall also be capable of manual extraction when held at any other angle (T). The pistol shall be capable of firing with a chambered round and without a magazine in the magazine well (T). The pistol shall reliably fire when the pistol has a round in the chamber and a fully loaded magazine is inserted with the slide fully forward and the pistol is fired (T). The operator shall be capable of operating the magazine release with the firing hand (T). The operator should be capable of operating the magazine release without shifting the firing grip (O). The JCP shall be operable for a range of operators from the 5th to 95th percentile per section 3.6.3. To aid in this, the JCP should incorporate a modular grip adjustment system to provide enhanced ergonomics (O). The JCP sights shall provide rapid target acquisition and shall be optimized for snag-resistant rapid deployment (T). The JCP sights shall be replaceable at the organizational level (T). The JCP sights shall be drift-adjustable for windage (T). The JCP sights shall be self-illuminating for low light situations without ambient or external light source "charging" (T). The JCP shall be chambered for standard .45 Auto per ANSI/SAAMI Z299.3-1993. The JCP shall safely fire all .45 caliber ACP cartridges referenced in paragraph 2.2.1 of this performance specification (T). Each JCP shall be capable of withstanding the firing of a M1 Cartridge, .45 ACP High Pressure Test detailed in MIL-C-60163 and marked accordingly (T). The pistol shall have proper headspace for .45 ACP cartridges (T). The JCP shall be capable of quick and easy field stripping, without the use of tools, for normal care and cleaning in the field (T). The weapon shall be incapable of improper assembly at the fieldstrip level to the detriment of safety (T). Takedown pins should be captive (O). All component parts or inseparable subassemblies shall be 100% interchangeable between pistols without hand or machine fitting (T). Interchange of parts of like condition shall not adversely affect safety, functioning, reliability or accuracy of the pistol (T). Operational suitability and effectiveness of the JCP is based on the ability of the JCP system to meet all stated threshold and objective requirements as well as Operators' (subjective and objective) determination of operational suitability and effectiveness. Factors include but are not limited to overall reliability, controllability/shootability as measured by live-fire hit scores and engagement times while shooting with two hands and single handed (both strong and weak hand), ease of reload and malfunction clearing, ergonomics, snag free operation, and ease of maintainability while in the field (T). The JCP shall be durable, and easily maintainable in the field (T). It shall be usable by right or left-handed operators (T). The pistol shall be operable by personnel wearing anti-contact protection (cold weather, scuba, or Chemical, Biological, Radiological gloves) (T). The pistol shall not present any sharp edges or pinch points that could damage the clothing or protective equipment of the soldier or injure the soldier (T). The JCP design shall allow the Operator to immediately clear a malfunction without the use of tools (T).