Count your shots

[zmmnm3]

Interesting thread. I count also but now that I am no longer an active LEO I lean to the shoot till you need to relaod school of thought. Counting was real important with a revolver and on qualification courses where you had to only shoot the number of rounds allowed. This is was an issue of the time where score on the range was important, not just qualifying. My agency had different levels and we wore the level on our uniform, like Distinguished Expert. I am still associated with Law Enformcement and what I am seeing is now more pass or fail for qualifications so the lawyers have less to feed on if a weapon is used. Sorry to digress, but the counting is not really necessary except for qualificaitons etc and even then it is a habit we should watch. We were grilled with a revolver to drop our brass rather than pocket it because of the documented cases where officers died with brass in their hand rather than reloading first. Remember what we do in practice will come out during stress. With the current auto loaders I would rather practice reloading and gun handling drills then count the rounds.

[Charlie Xray]

Originally Posted by spamlovr

I don't know where the OP was a LEO, but when your brain dumps adrenaline and someone is trying to kill you, I don't think that everyone will be able to remember to count shots. I don't think I would waste any brain time to try it, I'd only be worried about accurate shooting, which is worth more to me than counting rounds fired.

There are lots of AARs where a trained shooter could not remember how many rounds he fired or gave a number that was usually below actual. I don't think I have ever heard or read of anyone giving a correct round count when multiple shots were fired. I was taught to count by Cooper, and that may work in a match but not in real life after a massive adrenelin dump.

CX

[Joeywhat]

I would never bother counting shots. I'd rather use my brain power to focus on hitting the moving target (unless the target is dumb) while I'm moving myself. Getting accurate shots on target is more important then knowing how many rounds you have left while you're shooting at someone. When I see slide lock I train to find cover (if there is any) and do a speed reload. I doubt I'd save much time by counting shots.

Plus I do "tactical" (administrative, whatever you call it) reloads after firing and scanning. That's how I train, and it seems to be very effective. I know there's been a few times where I tried counting shots during a drill and I was never SURE of my round count at the end.

They key is practice. If you never practice speed reloads when you fire to slide lock you'll probably end up looking at your gun like a moron when the slide locks back because it's empty. If at the range you casually change mags at slide lock you'll learn to only do it that way. If you train that way it's even worse. Do thousands of reps where, when the slide is locked back with an empty mag you drop the mag and insert a fresh one ASAP, then chamber a round and GO GO GO.

IMO, YMMV, and I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

[spamlovr]

Originally Posted by rm_fritz

but the reason for full +1 is so that when the smoke has cleared then by seeing what you have left, then you know exactly how much you shot, for investigative purposes only.

I'll let the investigators figure out how many rounds I fired. My only job would be to survive and win. Deadly games in progress don't need round counts, they need accurate shots until the threat is stopped.

But no one here needs to trust me on that. Do your own thing, as long as it harms no one needlessly.

[Tard]

I got bored with semi-autos and started shooting revolver-only.

At first, I had a few 'clicks' but now I absolutely know how many rounds I've fired. With a 15 round semi under stress? Well, honestly I doubt I'd be able to do it.

[BearTaylor]

There's no way I could count shots.

[GunnBugg]

Originally Posted by BearTaylor

There's no way I could count shots.

No, not when you have twenty to keep up with...but with six, often shot in a cadence, its not as hard....at least when you are not shooting blind courses of fire.

I'd imagine that even counting six would be hard, as many have stated, when in a real world situation or a course of fire the shooter hasn't assayed reload points for.

[phaury]

In scuba diving with a dry suit (I know it's not a scuba board) you don't try to use your bouyancy compensator along with your dry suit to control neutral bouyancy. You use only your dry suit, because in a crisis you want to focus on one thing, Try to do two things in a crisis and perceptual narrowing (psych-physiological reality) will inhibit successful performing of both.

Keep the sight on the BG's and fire until no longer a threat. Reload if necessary.

[ThumperIII]

Don't know if this would effect pro or con for counting, but there is supposedly a difference in engagement philosophy between LEO and SD confrontations. Ideally, the LEO would be continuing to pursue to capture or neutralize the threat (aggressive) while the private individual at least legally should be in retreat, to escape or neutralize the threat (defensive).

Don't count on counting for me--unless it's z-zombies and I have to make sure to save one for myself.

[Alaskapopo]

Originally Posted by puckerstrings

Hello all, Well since I am kinda new hear, I would like to not step on anyone's toes, but being a former LEO I have noticed that alot of people load up their Xd's with one in the barrel, then load up the Magazine to full capacity. When I was a LEO I trained alot and it was aways drilled into our heads to only load the magazine then but on in the barrel. And to always count your shots even in practice. The reason for this is if and when you ever get into a gunfight, you will count your shots and if you have to reload you will always come up with the same amount of shots from first magazine to the last. I hope this makes since to you all.

That has not been taught in law enforcement for over 15 years. Reality has shown in a stressful situation you can not count shots. Most officers when asked how many rounds they fired usually underestimate what they have fired. Meaning they say they have fired 2 or 3 rounds when in relaity they have dumped their magazine. Training has improved much since the counting your shots era. Shoot while you have a threat. Reload when you have time or when you are out.
Pat