The Continuing Mag Problem, Part2 w/Pics

[Charlie Xray]

Originally Posted by CDW4ME

I did have two magazines replaced by SA because of deformation (one even developed a slight crack after 100 shots) at the top rear of the magazine. The magazine developed an outward dent and slight crack after about 100 rounds of Ranger T and Hydra Shocks. It would catch it the magazine well when the mag release was pushed, it would come out if I pulled it slightly.

This mag crack problem is believed to be associated with my problem. The round in the mag gets driven rearward as well as downward. This would put lots of pressure on the rear of the magazine at the top. The mag forming process may also create a weak area that the other problem only makes worse.

CX

[Charlie Xray]

Thanks all for the comments! It is entirely possible there is something else going on here that seems to show up in only some pistols, but it does seem limited to the .45 and not the 9 or the .40, at least I have not heard of any.

I should have tested some factory ball when I was at the range and I will go back and do that. Meanwhile, I painted the projectiles of some Federal 230 hardball and hand-cycled them through the pistol. I tried to simulate a firing cycle but of course I can't even come close. Even then, there is evidence of contact by the ejecting round's rim with the top round in the mag in exactly the same location as previous pics show.

Notice the bright spots on the case mouth marked with an arrow and follow that up to the top arrow, which is about where the contact point begins. The mag used in this test was not the one I identified as a potential problem mag.



It is possible the reloads are contributing but I doubt it very much.

CDW4ME - I can't make any sense of your dings. Maybe they are hitting the ejection port somewhere on ejection???

ArmyGuy - Reread my first post. They were cleaned before the test.

I need to do more testing with only factory loads and establish some control samples. More info when I have it.

Another interesting thing showed up in this hand test, but it does not seem to be related to this issue and I am not sure if it is meaningful. Notice a bright spot above the top arrow on some rounds? You can see it best on the first two on the left and the last one on the right. That is a nick in the brass that I think that is being made by a sharp point where the barrel hood is cut out for the loaded chamber indicator as the round enters the chamber. The sharp point is at the base of the notch in the hood. If I keep this pistol that will get knocked off.

CX

[Dirty Rod]

I would definely do some testing with ball or give the factory spring another shot to see if that changes things. I've got two XD45 Compacts with eight mags and my shooting buddy has a Service and a Compact in .45 with another nine mags. All mags have the factory springs. All of the guns have at least 2500 rounds through them and all mags have been through all guns since we shoot together a lot. Mostly FMJ from various manufacters and JHP from Speer, Federal, Winchester, and Hornady in 230, 200, 180, and 165 and I've never experienced what you are seeing.

Hope you get it solved. Lots of folks have reported issues feeding WC so my money is on the bullet profile.

[kidcoltoutlaw]

Did you take the slide off and put a mag with a rounds in to see if the slide stop pin is to long. I read about some problems with a 1911 it came from the factory to long,

Thanks,Keith

[Charlie Xray]

Originally Posted by kidcoltoutlaw

Did you take the slide off and put a mag with a rounds in to see if the slide stop pin is to long. I read about some problems with a 1911 it came from the factory to long,

Thanks,Keith

Interesting. Can you define "too long" so I know what to look for? It does not look long enough to contact a round in the mag.

CX

[ThumperIII]

I haven't seen any XD where some contact marks are not left on the top of the next round in the mag. It's just in your case, finding out why the contact is so hard as to be damaging to the feeding (raised case rim) and driving top round nose downward more than normal. If this was a serious design flaw of the XD, I think we'd see many more posts about FTF's in all the years it's been around. Something particular to your pistol or ammo. Many competitive shooters have in the 10's of k's of rounds without feed failures using reloaded ammo from very hot to just making minimum power factor. Other than SWC bullets (and HST HP's in some pistols) there are really very few FTF problems.

The angle of the nose taper on your TC ammo appears to be more acute than most RN or HP bullets in the area where the extracted case contact is occurring. This may increase the digging in of the extracted round, where it may be more deflected by a flatter angle.

The dents in the side of the extracted cases are normal. It's where the case hits the ejection port edge during extraction.

The forward most nose contact point you mentioned with the tested FMJ ammo could just be where the up-tilted nose contacts the top of the chamber as it starts feeding into the barrel.

"TOO LONG" would be where the pin is leaving contact marks on rounds feeding from the left side of the mag.

Tarnished cases can significantly increase friction inside the mag with double stacked rounds, slowing spring action.

I only use a drying-type silicone or teflon spray lube in mags. No oil to attract dirt. (Super Lube Dri-Film w Teflon - Ace hardware or others).

I have a couple K factory loads (500+ of HST1 230gr HP's and rest mostly Am Eagle 230gr FMJ) with only one FTF when I was trying different grip techniques. I reloaded other ammo previously but just getting equip setup for loading .45acp. I have done a bunch of reading on possible reload component combinations. That is why I mentioned trying a shorter OAL in prior post.

[Charlie Xray]

Thumper, you raise a valid point. It seems like if this was systemic we would see far more pistols with the problem. Instead it appears to me is there is no middle ground; either the gun is completely reliable for thousands of rounds or it is not and jams a lot.

As for the contact points being related to the chamber, there is one point where the nose contacts the top of the chamber, which I pointed out above my top arrows in the pics, but that is further out nearer the tip. The contact, drag mark, and damage to the case mouth is not coming from the chamber of the barrel, IMO.

CX

[dosei]

Charlie,
Could you post a good pic of the underside of the slide? Is there any chance that this is being caused by a roll pin in the slide sticking out (down) a little and hitting the rounds in the mag?

[Charlie Xray]

Here is the underside of the slide. I partially retracted the slide and took a reading with my calipers on how far below the top of the slide the barrel hood dropped during extraction - 150/1000" measured at the very back. I then removed the slide and inserted an empty in the barrel and reset the barrel 150/1000" below the top of the slide to simulate what the extraction process might look like without the frame. I then took this picture.



As you can see the empty hangs below the slide. It is 47/1000" below to be exact. That rim extending downward is what is hitting the top round in the magazine. Nothing else is protruding into that space.

CX

[dosei]

Here is the odd thing...I can't get the the same thing to happen with mine. My mics, calipers, indicators, and other tools are at work so I can't get any solid numbers tonight. I'll do some measuring on my XD tomorrow to see what the numbers are on mine. Visually though, the case never drops below the bottom of the slide during extraction.