A Neomet kind of Suresight experience - XDTalk Forums - Your HS2000/SA-XD Information Source!

Neomet · 02-24-2007, 07:14 PM

Well, I had the sights installed on the .45 Tactical yesterday and Ms Neomet and I went out to the range to do some shooting today. Just as a frame of reference for those who have not heard my whining on the subject, I have both poor vision (bifocal contacts) combined with vision issues from proliferative retinopathy and the aftereffects of a couple surgeries for this condition. I just say this to point out that I am probably pretty far from the norm as far as vision so my experiences may be considerably different than someone with more normal vision.

First off, the 'smith liked the way the sights are made in that the extra material let him file down to an exact fit. Charged me $30 but I thought this was fair since he was doing more than just drifting out an old set and tapping in some new ones.

No problems at all fitting into my Tucker Answer holster. Slid right in and my draws were as fast as they were before.

At the range the first thing that got my attention is that these sights are bright. I mean really bright. Makes my FO sight look like a pinhead. I was a little concerned when they came that the rear sight would attract my attention (I quit using anything but a black rearsight because they draw my attention away from the Holy Grail of shooting, the front sight). The thing is that the front sight is so much larger that it does draw my attention and I didn't have any problem with getting "pulled" to the rear sight.

Along the same line the brightness of these sights is an advantage when shooting at indoor ranges, or probably anywhere with reduced light, over FO sights which are more dependent on ambient light. My FOs are noticeably better outdoors than indoors.

On to shooting............. These are very different sights, and as Chaim states, there is a definite learning curve. At first I was struggling, and it seems related to attempting to "post and notch" these sights. It just felt unnatural to have that front sight sitting up there all by it's lonesome without the shoulders of the rear sight bracketing it. I started off with doing slow shots at around 1 per second while focusing on the front sight. Horizontal placement seemed easier than vertical. This improved as I became more comfortable with the sight picture. The front sight does really jump out at you.

Once I got somewhat comfortable with the eyesight mechanics I pushed the target back to 25 yards and took four slow shots, two handed. One thing I immediately noted was that the whole sight can be seen when shooting at this distance. With a straight black rear sight the notch is wider than the head portion of the target so the shoulders of the rear sight disappear into the black of the target. The four shots grouped at a hair over 2 3/4 inches which is actually better than I have grouped before. A group of 12 at that distance were all within 6 1/4" Again, better than I normally can do.

I brought the target back in to work on some rapid sight aquisition shots as well as firing quick (for me) doubles. This was a little more interesting as I went back and forth between focusing on the front sight and just watching my target and seeing the sights as a bit fuzzy. This is the part where I think most will have a learning curve. I was shooting at 7 and 10 yards and eventually moved to just focusing on the target and my speed came up nicely with practice. I could not time the shots as there were lots of other shooters at the time so no way would a timer have worked. My speed did definitely pick up and actually felt like it may be a bit faster at this point than my Dawsons. Remember, I am slow in the first place. Shot placement was A zone with a smattering of shots that I threw away which were not the sights' fault. One thing that I really liked was that not once did I lose my front sight behind the rear, which does happen occasionaly with my Dawsons and personally is hugely frustrating as it seems like it takes me a very long time to reaquire the front sight when that happens.

At this point I would say that I am definitely still in the learning curve with the sights. I am certainly comfortable with their accuracy out to 25 yards and like the way the front sight is so visible. The jury is still out on just looking at a target rather than the front sight, at least for competition. For real world encounters my experience supports Chaim's assertion that the sights can deliver end of discussion hits while looking at your attacker.

Plans at this point are lots of dryfire practice and then back to the range either tomorrow or Wednesday. I'll update as this journey continues.

AZBill · 02-25-2007, 07:39 AM

Great range report! So I take it, your eyes have "thanked" you for buying the sights?

NoBrAiNr · 02-25-2007, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZBill

Great range report! So I take it, your eyes have "thanked" you for buying the sights?

+1 to the thanks, and subscribing for your further adventures in the learning curve.

Neomet · 02-25-2007, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZBill

Great range report! So I take it, your eyes have "thanked" you for buying the sights?

Thanks. I still want to see (sorry for the pun) how they work once I feel I am using them as best I can before rendering a final verdict. This also lets me wear off some of the "I got something new!" enthusiasm which can taint a review. At this point I can say that I really do like how I can always see the front sight even at the indoor range and believe they are, for me at least, as accurate at slow shot placement as my Dawsons.

As far as evaluating them on quick sight aquisition the true objective test is yet to come. I plan on using a timer pitting my XD with the Suresights against my 1911 with Dawsons. Not exactly a true double-blind test, but certainly more objective than gauging how much faster one is just by how I feel. This will need to wait a bit however until I feel I am as proficient as possible with the new sights.

**nsnate02** · 02-25-2007, 12:03 PM

Good report. Sounds like my experience and many others. The learning curve is definently there, however, I felt a lot less stress trying to figure it out with my eyes, as the sights were much more intuitive - Once I unlearned the notch and post thinking.

puma85 · 02-25-2007, 12:44 PM

lets see some target pictures neomet. before and after if you got'em.

Neomet · 02-25-2007, 06:13 PM

So after practicing a lot of dryfire drills last night I went out to the range again today. My results continue to improve. Some of it involves me just relaxing and trusting the "fuzzy" focus while I look at the target. Here are some photos with explanations. All targets were BT-5R/2. Red zone is 4" wide by 5 1/2" high. The 9 ring is 8 1/2 wide by 9 1/2 high.

Photo one is a three shot group at 25 yards slow fire. Center to center is 2 3/4".

Photo two is a six shot group at 20 yards. Not as slow as at 25, but I made sure the sights had settled back down before shooting. At least on the first six shots. I yanked shot number 7 down to 7:00 that is marked with masking tape.

Photo 3 is 14 shots at 15 yards coming from a fast draw and putting two shots on target. I couldn't get a time on these shots as a CCW group was qualifing at the time and I couldn't trust that the timer was picking up somebody elses shot. My gut feeling is that these shots, particularly the followup shots were faster than what I could do with notch/post sights.

Last photo is a set of four Billdrills at 7 yards. Unfortunately for these shots I had to shoot WWB 230s. My earlier shots were with FMJ 230s at 850 FPS which consequently had much less recoil and muzzleflip than the Winchesters. The good news was that the CCW folks were gone and I could use the timer. Average for the four groups was 3.2 seconds and I choked a bit on one string. My time will definitely continue to improve on this drill, both with softer ammo and practice.

I didn't compare with the 1911 yet as I want to wait until I have completed my learning curve.

**nsnate02** · 02-25-2007, 06:15 PM

Even better Report! Man, you know how to give the reports.

Neomet · 02-26-2007, 08:37 PM

Thanks Nsnate. I'll probably wait another week or two before the full-blown shoot-out comparo to be sure I am have reached a plateau on the learning curve.

I'm interested to see what the master arbitor (the timer) has to say..........

Neomet · 03-03-2007, 06:09 PM

Went to the range today but only had less than 100 rouinds of WWB to shoot. I continue to find that my accuracy at 25 yards is much better than with my Dawsons. I continue to be somewhat surprised by this as the rep was that I should not expect improved accuracy. Oh well, lucky me! Again was able to shoot groups of 5 inside of 3" with the Wallyworld specials. Not bad at all.

My XD was acting unusually fussy today with both failures to fire and failure to feeds. I need to look into both of those problems (particullarly since I use this as my carry gun) but as far as this post goes it totally ruined my concentration on quick shots. I was stringing some a little bit vertically, most noteable high, but I wouldn't draw any conclusions from todays range time, other than the continued improvement in accuracy and how much time I had to spend showing everyone who got sight of them how they looked.

Gotta go tear the XD down now and see what if buggering up the works.

02-24-2007, 07:14 PM	#1
Neomet XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Made it to Scottsdale, AZ Posts: 1,402	A Neomet kind of Suresight experience Well, I had the sights installed on the .45 Tactical yesterday and Ms Neomet and I went out to the range to do some shooting today. Just as a frame of reference for those who have not heard my whining on the subject, I have both poor vision (bifocal contacts) combined with vision issues from proliferative retinopathy and the aftereffects of a couple surgeries for this condition. I just say this to point out that I am probably pretty far from the norm as far as vision so my experiences may be considerably different than someone with more normal vision. First off, the 'smith liked the way the sights are made in that the extra material let him file down to an exact fit. Charged me $30 but I thought this was fair since he was doing more than just drifting out an old set and tapping in some new ones. No problems at all fitting into my Tucker Answer holster. Slid right in and my draws were as fast as they were before. At the range the first thing that got my attention is that these sights are bright. I mean really bright. Makes my FO sight look like a pinhead. I was a little concerned when they came that the rear sight would attract my attention (I quit using anything but a black rearsight because they draw my attention away from the Holy Grail of shooting, the front sight). The thing is that the front sight is so much larger that it does draw my attention and I didn't have any problem with getting "pulled" to the rear sight. Along the same line the brightness of these sights is an advantage when shooting at indoor ranges, or probably anywhere with reduced light, over FO sights which are more dependent on ambient light. My FOs are noticeably better outdoors than indoors. On to shooting............. These are very different sights, and as Chaim states, there is a definite learning curve. At first I was struggling, and it seems related to attempting to "post and notch" these sights. It just felt unnatural to have that front sight sitting up there all by it's lonesome without the shoulders of the rear sight bracketing it. I started off with doing slow shots at around 1 per second while focusing on the front sight. Horizontal placement seemed easier than vertical. This improved as I became more comfortable with the sight picture. The front sight does really jump out at you. Once I got somewhat comfortable with the eyesight mechanics I pushed the target back to 25 yards and took four slow shots, two handed. One thing I immediately noted was that the whole sight can be seen when shooting at this distance. With a straight black rear sight the notch is wider than the head portion of the target so the shoulders of the rear sight disappear into the black of the target. The four shots grouped at a hair over 2 3/4 inches which is actually better than I have grouped before. A group of 12 at that distance were all within 6 1/4" Again, better than I normally can do. I brought the target back in to work on some rapid sight aquisition shots as well as firing quick (for me) doubles. This was a little more interesting as I went back and forth between focusing on the front sight and just watching my target and seeing the sights as a bit fuzzy. This is the part where I think most will have a learning curve. I was shooting at 7 and 10 yards and eventually moved to just focusing on the target and my speed came up nicely with practice. I could not time the shots as there were lots of other shooters at the time so no way would a timer have worked. My speed did definitely pick up and actually felt like it may be a bit faster at this point than my Dawsons. Remember, I am slow in the first place. Shot placement was A zone with a smattering of shots that I threw away which were not the sights' fault. One thing that I really liked was that not once did I lose my front sight behind the rear, which does happen occasionaly with my Dawsons and personally is hugely frustrating as it seems like it takes me a very long time to reaquire the front sight when that happens. At this point I would say that I am definitely still in the learning curve with the sights. I am certainly comfortable with their accuracy out to 25 yards and like the way the front sight is so visible. The jury is still out on just looking at a target rather than the front sight, at least for competition. For real world encounters my experience supports Chaim's assertion that the sights can deliver end of discussion hits while looking at your attacker. Plans at this point are lots of dryfire practice and then back to the range either tomorrow or Wednesday. I'll update as this journey continues. __________________ Who said that? Who the freak said that? Who's the slimy little communist $hit, twinkle-toed rocksucker down here who just signed his own death warrant? Nobody, huh? The fairy freaking godmother said it. Out-freaking-standing. I will PT you all until you freaking die! Last edited by Neomet; 02-24-2007 at 07:54 PM.

02-25-2007, 12:03 PM	#5
nsnate02 XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,077	Good report. Sounds like my experience and many others. The learning curve is definently there, however, I felt a lot less stress trying to figure it out with my eyes, as the sights were much more intuitive - Once I unlearned the notch and post thinking. __________________ "It is better to be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." *Abraham Lincoln*

02-25-2007, 06:13 PM	#7
Neomet XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Made it to Scottsdale, AZ Posts: 1,402	Suresight Part Deux So after practicing a lot of dryfire drills last night I went out to the range again today. My results continue to improve. Some of it involves me just relaxing and trusting the "fuzzy" focus while I look at the target. Here are some photos with explanations. All targets were BT-5R/2. Red zone is 4" wide by 5 1/2" high. The 9 ring is 8 1/2 wide by 9 1/2 high. Photo one is a three shot group at 25 yards slow fire. Center to center is 2 3/4". Photo two is a six shot group at 20 yards. Not as slow as at 25, but I made sure the sights had settled back down before shooting. At least on the first six shots. I yanked shot number 7 down to 7:00 that is marked with masking tape. Photo 3 is 14 shots at 15 yards coming from a fast draw and putting two shots on target. I couldn't get a time on these shots as a CCW group was qualifing at the time and I couldn't trust that the timer was picking up somebody elses shot. My gut feeling is that these shots, particularly the followup shots were faster than what I could do with notch/post sights. Last photo is a set of four Billdrills at 7 yards. Unfortunately for these shots I had to shoot WWB 230s. My earlier shots were with FMJ 230s at 850 FPS which consequently had much less recoil and muzzleflip than the Winchesters. The good news was that the CCW folks were gone and I could use the timer. Average for the four groups was 3.2 seconds and I choked a bit on one string. My time will definitely continue to improve on this drill, both with softer ammo and practice. I didn't compare with the 1911 yet as I want to wait until I have completed my learning curve. __________________ Who said that? Who the freak said that? Who's the slimy little communist $hit, twinkle-toed rocksucker down here who just signed his own death warrant? Nobody, huh? The fairy freaking godmother said it. Out-freaking-standing. I will PT you all until you freaking die!

02-25-2007, 06:15 PM	#8
nsnate02 XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,077	Even better Report! Man, you know how to give the reports. __________________ "It is better to be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." *Abraham Lincoln*

02-26-2007, 08:37 PM	#9
Neomet XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Made it to Scottsdale, AZ Posts: 1,402	Thanks Nsnate. I'll probably wait another week or two before the full-blown shoot-out comparo to be sure I am have reached a plateau on the learning curve. I'm interested to see what the master arbitor (the timer) has to say.......... __________________ Who said that? Who the freak said that? Who's the slimy little communist $hit, twinkle-toed rocksucker down here who just signed his own death warrant? Nobody, huh? The fairy freaking godmother said it. Out-freaking-standing. I will PT you all until you freaking die!

02-25-2007, 07:39 AM	#2
AZBill XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Arizona Posts: 262	Great range report! So I take it, your eyes have "thanked" you for buying the sights?

02-25-2007, 12:44 PM	#6
puma85 XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Tennessee Posts: 143	lets see some target pictures neomet. before and after if you got'em.

03-03-2007, 06:09 PM	#10
Neomet XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Made it to Scottsdale, AZ Posts: 1,402	3/3 update Went to the range today but only had less than 100 rouinds of WWB to shoot. I continue to find that my accuracy at 25 yards is much better than with my Dawsons. I continue to be somewhat surprised by this as the rep was that I should not expect improved accuracy. Oh well, lucky me! Again was able to shoot groups of 5 inside of 3" with the Wallyworld specials. Not bad at all. My XD was acting unusually fussy today with both failures to fire and failure to feeds. I need to look into both of those problems (particullarly since I use this as my carry gun) but as far as this post goes it totally ruined my concentration on quick shots. I was stringing some a little bit vertically, most noteable high, but I wouldn't draw any conclusions from todays range time, other than the continued improvement in accuracy and how much time I had to spend showing everyone who got sight of them how they looked. Gotta go tear the XD down now and see what if buggering up the works. __________________ Who said that? Who the freak said that? Who's the slimy little communist $hit, twinkle-toed rocksucker down here who just signed his own death warrant? Nobody, huh? The fairy freaking godmother said it. Out-freaking-standing. I will PT you all until you freaking die!

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