XD45 competition questions - Page 3 - XDTalk Forums - Your HS2000/SA-XD Information Source!

dosei · 03-10-2008, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksxddriver

I am a IDPA Safety officer, you can shoot a 45 in ESP if your loads don't make major power factor. I know a couple of guys that make minor power factor 45 loads to specifically shoot ESP in IDPA. FYI

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksxddriver

In IDPA, to clarify in general, CDP if for single action 45's, ESP is for single action minor power factor guns(40's & 9mm), SSP is for guns that continue to cock the gun before the striker fires, like glocks, sigs, and other guns that have dropped hammers or cocking triggers. Since XD's are cocked and the trigger just allows the firing pin to be released to fire the gun, it is detemined by IDPA as a single action pistol. FYI

Whoa, whoa, whoa guys...
ksxddriver, your an SO...you at least should know the rules better.

SSP (Stock Service Pistol) Handguns must be:
Semi-Automatic
Double-Action, DAO, or Safe Action (Glock)
9mm or larger caliber
Yadda yadda yadda

ESP (Enhanced Service Pistol) Handguns must be:
Semi-Automatic
9mm or larger caliber
Yadda yadda yadda

CDP (Custom Defensive Pistol) Handguns must be:
Semi-Automatic
45 ACP Caliber
Yadda, yadda, yadda

Minimum Power Floor (Muzzle Velocity X Bullet Weight):
SSP = 125,000
ESP = 125,000
CDP = 165,000

You can shoot ANYTHING 9mm or LARGER in SSP & ESP as long as the gun meets the other requirements for that division. The XD's do not qualify for SSP because they are classified as single action. Other 45's, such as the Para LDA's, can and do compete in the SSP division.

To the OP:
I shoot the ESP division of IDPA with a XD45 Service. The only thing I did to modify the gun was replacing the factory sights with Tru-Glo TFO sights. What you can or cannot do to the gun depend on the competetion, rules for IDPA are different from USPSA. Everything has it's own rules...

ksxddriver · 03-10-2008, 01:04 PM

That is correct. If you shoot a 45 you can choose to "sub down" and shoot against a smaller caliber as long as your gun meets the specifications of the division you shoot in. You can choose to do that but it is not a advantage shooting a larger caliber with more recoil against a smaller caliber. Everything you said is correct. I said in general that is how you would choose your division to shoot in. I didn't mean to intend that you can't "sub down".

ksxddriver · 03-10-2008, 01:07 PM

The Para LDA pistols can shoot in SSP due to their double action type trigger system, but the true single action trigger Para's are limited to shoot CDP or ESP due to the power factor restriction.

Chapie+ · 03-10-2008, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dosei

Whoa, whoa, whoa guys...
ksxddriver, your an SO...you at least should know the rules better.

SSP (Stock Service Pistol) Handguns must be:
Semi-Automatic
Double-Action, DAO, or Safe Action (Glock)
9mm or larger caliber
Yadda yadda yadda

ESP (Enhanced Service Pistol) Handguns must be:
Semi-Automatic
9mm or larger caliber
Yadda yadda yadda

CDP (Custom Defensive Pistol) Handguns must be:
Semi-Automatic
45 ACP Caliber
Yadda, yadda, yadda

Minimum Power Floor (Muzzle Velocity X Bullet Weight):
SSP = 125,000
ESP = 125,000
CDP = 165,000

You can shoot ANYTHING 9mm or LARGER in SSP & ESP as long as the gun meets the other requirements for that division. The XD's do not qualify for SSP because they are classified as single action. Other 45's, such as the Para LDA's, can and do compete in the SSP division.

To the OP:
I shoot the ESP division of IDPA with a XD45 Service. The only thing I did to modify the gun was replacing the factory sights with Tru-Glo TFO sights. What you can or cannot do to the gun depend on the competetion, rules for IDPA are different from USPSA. Everything has it's own rules...

Why are Glocks and XDs catagorized differently? Put another way, why can't an XD complete in the same catagory as a Glock?

Chapie+

dosei · 03-11-2008, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chapie+

Why are Glocks and XDs catagorized differently? Put another way, why can't an XD complete in the same catagory as a Glock?

Chapie+

The XD does not "cock" the striker when the trigger is pulled. It is a "single action". Pulling the trigger disengages internal safeties and drops the sear, much like Series 80 1911's. Since the sear rotates downward, the rotational movement does move the striker back a VERY small amount, but not enough for IDPA to list it as a DA, DAO, or Glock-style "safe action". It's a sore spot for many XD owners...it's also a dead horse.

The Knight Of Light · 03-11-2008, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dosei

Since the sear rotates downward, the rotational movement does move the striker back a VERY small amount, but not enough for IDPA to list it as a DA, DAO, or Glock-style "safe action".

The BATF is the one that makes the decision on what a firearm is officially classified as not the IDPA. The IDPA is only basing their decision off of the BATF's decision.

dosei · 03-11-2008, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Knight Of Light

The BATF is the one that makes the decision on what a firearm is officially classified as not the IDPA. The IDPA is only basing their decision off of the BATF's decision.

Correct. But the IDPA (and any other competition/organization) has the freedom to lump the XD into whatever category they please. IDPA will not let the XD's play with the Glocks in SSP but, IIRC, IPSC lets XD's and Glocks play together in the Production Division (yet the rules of Production Division state that Single-Action-Only handguns are prohibited). An organization is in no way "bound" by the BATF classifications.

PS...if I'm screwed up about IPSC allowing XD's in Production Division, some please correct me...thanks!

Edited to add:
IDPA could classify the XD as "Safe Action". Safety wise there is no real difference between Glocks and XD's. The striker on a Glock is pre-cocked to 62%. Gaston made sure that at 62%, the striker was under load that if released from the pre-cocked position the Glock would fire. So the bottom line is, both gun are design to fire a round without any extra rearward movement occuring on the striker. The Glock is just design to "over-cock" the striker.

But like I said earlier, the IDPA thing is a dead horse...

The Knight Of Light · 03-11-2008, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dosei

An organization is in no way "bound" by the BATF classifications.
But like I said earlier, the IDPA thing is a dead horse...

I never said they were bound. I just said they "based" their decision.

And yes it is a dead horse, but people still ask questions.

Let's just answer them.

Chapie+ · 03-11-2008, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dosei

Correct. But the IDPA (and any other competition/organization) has the freedom to lump the XD into whatever category they please. IDPA will not let the XD's play with the Glocks in SSP but, IIRC, IPSC lets XD's and Glocks play together in the Production Division (yet the rules of Production Division state that Single-Action-Only handguns are prohibited). An organization is in no way "bound" by the BATF classifications.

PS...if I'm screwed up about IPSC allowing XD's in Production Division, some please correct me...thanks!

Edited to add:
IDPA could classify the XD as "Safe Action". Safety wise there is no real difference between Glocks and XD's. The striker on a Glock is pre-cocked to 62%. Gaston made sure that at 62%, the striker was under load that if released from the pre-cocked position the Glock would fire. So the bottom line is, both gun are design to fire a round without any extra rearward movement occuring on the striker. The Glock is just design to "over-cock" the striker.

But like I said earlier, the IDPA thing is a dead horse...

Sorry I didn't know I was beating a dead horse. I have only had the XD since November, so I am still learning.

Speaking of learning, what is IIRC?

I now know what SSP and ESP stand for because I asked (and received very informational posts - thank you!).

I've seen IIRC but I haven't a clue what that stands for? Does this forum come with a glossary for clueless newbies like me?

Always asking ?s and learning and often humble,
Chapie+

dosei · 03-11-2008, 02:26 PM

Chapie,
You are not beating a dead horse...I was...

IIRC = If I Remember Correctly
IMHO = In My Humble Opinion
WTF = What The F**k
BTW = By The Way
FYI = For Your Information
FWIW = For What It's Worth
(there are more, I just can't rememer them right now)

Never be afraid to ask. No such thing as a dumb question.

03-11-2008, 02:26 PM	#30
dosei XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 296	Chapie, You are not beating a dead horse...I was... IIRC = If I Remember Correctly IMHO = In My Humble Opinion WTF = What The F**k BTW = By The Way FYI = For Your Information FWIW = For What It's Worth (there are more, I just can't rememer them right now) Never be afraid to ask. No such thing as a dumb question. __________________ "Freedom is a system based on courage"

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03-10-2008, 01:04 PM	#22
ksxddriver XDTalk Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Just moved to Georgia Posts: 70	That is correct. If you shoot a 45 you can choose to "sub down" and shoot against a smaller caliber as long as your gun meets the specifications of the division you shoot in. You can choose to do that but it is not a advantage shooting a larger caliber with more recoil against a smaller caliber. Everything you said is correct. I said in general that is how you would choose your division to shoot in. I didn't mean to intend that you can't "sub down".

03-10-2008, 01:07 PM	#23
ksxddriver XDTalk Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Just moved to Georgia Posts: 70	The Para LDA pistols can shoot in SSP due to their double action type trigger system, but the true single action trigger Para's are limited to shoot CDP or ESP due to the power factor restriction.