What do LEOs think about armed citizens/armed students?

[Mister XD]

I was in college when columbine happened. The day after, they had all the professors remind us that firearms were not allowed on campus. I ignored them, I carried anyway. Nobody knew but some close friends knew about it, and even the ones that were against it never made a fuss about it.

Generally, whether you like it or not, 99% of us (those with licenses to carry) are hardly immature or irresponsible, and before you preach and state your worst fears, why not do a LITTLE research and see the crime/accident rate amongst those with licenses.

Besides, they really can't stop us. If we have licenses, we're not breaking the law (unless some state has a law against it) we're just breaking school rules, and if they try to expell, you can sue over it. Call the NRA

[bigun]

Originally Posted by jackbauer

This is an argument I've heard before and it is really a dangerous one, for a supposed Pro-2A person, to make. Here is the question I would ask you: would you support their right to carry if they weren't college students but were "just" factory workers? What makes them so inherently more dangerous simply because they are college students? Do non-college students drink, party, etc?

Further, your comment displays an overall lack of understanding of the make-up of the student body today. The biggest impact of allowing guns in legal citizens hands on campus would be felt by graduate students and faculty. I happen to be a grad-student myself and resent that I must disarm, as a 39 yr old, when I attend class on-campus. I am, as I type this, in an online class. However, some times it is better to take certain classed on campus.

Finally, let me ask you this: do you think guns CURRENTLY exist on campus? Don't be so naive to answer no...

Is your daughter safer now?

Obviously a Grad student would hopefully be intelligent enough to carry but there are alot of career students that stay in school to avoid the eventual job. Listen I have no problem with a 21 year old carrying a gun with a permit, usually if someone is going to be trouble they have a record by 21. I guess I'd like to see a college campus be free of violence all together, I know fantasy. No my daughter is in College near Kansas City Mo. one of the most violent cities in the Midwest so I have nightmares about this crap all the time and called her the moment I heard about VT. Hell the Iowa Colleges just armed their Police forces this year in response to the shootings. I really blieve that the kids should be able to concentrate on their studies hell that's what they are paying 20-50k a year for in a secure enviroment.

[jackbauer]

Originally Posted by bigun

Obviously a Grad student would hopefully be intelligent enough to carry but there are alot of career students that stay in school to avoid the eventual job.

So that makes them dangerous? That's another foolish generalization. To use the term "alot" gives away your true lack of understanding, again, of the student population. Maybe, and it is a stretch to say this, MAYBE 5% of college students fit that profile.

So, perhaps unemployed people ought not be able to have permits? Maybe we need some sort of "laziness" profile done before we can buy a gun and carry it?

I really blieve that the kids should be able to concentrate on their studies hell that's what they are paying 20-50k a year for in a secure enviroment.

Are you, then, going to depend on the fantasy of "no guns allowed here"? You know, everyone ought to be able to go to the grocery store without fear as well. People ought to be able to go to a restaurant without fear as well. People ought to be able to go to the mall without fear as well. People ought to be able to go to church without fear as well.

Where, exactly, are you OK with people (or kids) going with fear? Me...I bring my secure environment with me.

[JBHorne]

Originally Posted by Mister XD

Besides, they really can't stop us. If we have licenses, we're not breaking the law (unless some state has a law against it) we're just breaking school rules, and if they try to expell, you can sue over it. Call the NRA

This is not entirely true. In Arizona, the law would define this as a "disruption of an educational institution." By posting a "Gun Free Zone" (that term sends tingles up my spine -- like Voldemort!) sign you have been provided a "reasonable request" that you are breaking the law.

http://www.uapd.arizona.edu/weapons%...0for%20web.pdf

They do, however, allow you submit a request for exemption from this policy. I think I just might go through the trouble and then file a suit *if* (or should I say *when*) my request is denied.

I am not encouraging anyone to do so by any means, but you are also protected under the 4th amendment against unreasonable search and seizure. Theoretically, unless there is suspicion that you are carrying, they have no right to search you, and if they did without probable cause or a warrant, I believe you would have a strong case in court under the precedent of many other cases in which police officers have unlawfully completed searches. Again, no legal advice here, If all went well and you concealed perfectly and not a soul knew that you had a gun on campus, the most trouble you could get in is when the SHTF and you either brandish or use your weapon in the your own self-defense or the defense of a third person in immediate harm. If you were to complete the action of your intent on drawing the weapon in the first place, and were to either stop either a massacre from starting or cease one that was in progress, the legal resources of the NRA would ravish an eternal living hell on any state prosecutor willing to even attempt the case against you. As far as I'm concerned, the bullets in your gun are your jury, and your trigger finger is the judge. Saving lives from a psychotic criminal makes you a hero, not one of them.

[Mister XD]

Like I said, unless some state has a specific law against it.

Still, I think you can fight it and win. It's probably not an arrestable offense (they probably summon you, not put you in cuffs). LEO's are a bit weary of locking people with licenses to carry up under most normal circumstances, and if they locked up everyone for "disrupting an educational institution" there would be no students left in ANY school!! LOL Speak to a lawyer and see how much water that law holds before taking it at face value.

To others... I hate it how when people argue against this right, they ALL say the same thing... "The kids..." Just because we're talking about college as "a school" doesn't mean there are a bunch of rampant 10 year olds with firearms running around. These "kids" qualify for a license to carry. If the state has no problem with them walking the streets with a loaded gun, what are the colleges so worried about??

Those "Gun-free zone" signs sure did a good job to stop those killers in Virginia and Illinois.

[wombat13]

Originally Posted by spyderman2k4

That is one of the main arguments, but here is what I don't understand. People are worried that just because some crazy college partying frat boys can suddenly carry on campus (with a license/permit), that they'll all of the sudden go out and get it. But outside of college, they have the right to do it and carry just about anywhere that they want, but they do not do that. If these crazies DO carry other places, apparently they are in fact responsible enough, considering we don't hear about many accidents at parties and whatnot.

It seems to me like the feeling is that once people (who can legally carry in their state) are finally allowed to carry on campus, that EVERYONE will flock to the gun stores and sheriff's office. I don't think that's it at all. I don't think it'll cause much of an increase in gun or CCW ownership. The major difference will be that people that ALREADY had their permits to carry, and regularly carried other places, will finally be able to carry (legally) on campus as well.

You are exactly right. Both my wife (33 yo) and I (35 yo) work on a university campus and we both have our CCW. We are the kind of people that would start packing if the laws changed.

[Mister XD]

Originally Posted by wombat13

You are exactly right. Both my wife (33 yo) and I (35 yo) work on a university campus and we both have our CCW. We are the kind of people that would start packing if the laws changed.

Why not carry anyway?? Which is worth risking more, your job or your life?

[spyderman2k4]

Originally Posted by JBHorne

I know there is no evidence to support this, but I disagree with 'spyderman2k4' in that student will not all of a sudden get their CCW and start carrying, without any previous firearms experience. Guns could turn into the next iPod revolution in which everyone has one. Again, I realize there is no data to backup these statements, but seeing it first hand, I can say that I think it would happen.

Well... as long as you admit there is no evidence. I would definitely not compare iPods to guns. Look at it this way... the iPod was something incredibly new and useful. People everywhere were going to get them... whether they went to college or not. I will say that many iPod users are probably college students, but that's the demographic the iPod is geared toward. College students generally have more music than most other people, so it is useful to them. If people were going to use guns as fads, they'd be doing it already outside of school.

Handguns and CCWs, to every day people, are not considered a craze outside of campus. Look at it this way... my college is a dry campus. I know a lot of people that don't drink, even if we go out to dinner or something. Those people are not going to start drinking just because the college changed its policy to allow alcohol on campus. If they aren't going to do it off campus, they aren't going to do it on campus all of the sudden.