What do LEOs think about armed citizens/armed students?

[BMC6765]

Yes, With proper training. Politics is the issue. The days of majority rules seem to be getting farther away. Everyone is afraid to anger the mnority, and dont want to seem hartless to the people whom have lost loved ones from stray bullets. Emotions over shadow the logic IMO.

[Jettubby]

Yes if they are of age and complete a firearms training course taught by the college or similar institution. A one day course it not enough in my opinion unless you've had other formal training. I've been formally trained and been around firearms all my life and the 4-6hr CCW class that I attended once was a joke. For some CCW holders, that's all they've had.

[bigun]

Originally Posted by JBHorne

Great question! I hadn't thought of that! I bet he can't carry off-duty, which he would be while in class, but they may have made an exception.

All LEO's are allowed to carry off duty by HR214 I cant remember what the final bill was called and I'm sure there could be an exemption made in his case. I am verry pro carry, however after spending some time on my daughters campus I have alot of reservations on allowing student carry. Most of the Kids I have run across on campus are too imature mentally to bear the responsibility of getting to class on time much less make a life or death decision. Drug and Alcohol abuses are rampant and a stupid imature drunk or stoner should not be in posession of a weapon on campus or anywhere for that matter. I have no problem with adult students or staff members carrying on campus but the thought of most of the student body packing gives me nightmares. I already know that my position on this will be unpopular with the college age kids on this board but as a parent and a LEO I cannot support armed students. I am one of the no votes.

[spyderman2k4]

Originally Posted by bigun

All LEO's are allowed to carry off duty by HR214 I cant remember what the final bill was called and I'm sure there could be an exemption made in his case. I am verry pro carry, however after spending some time on my daughters campus I have alot of reservations on allowing student carry. Most of the Kids I have run across on campus are too imature mentally to bear the responsibility of getting to class on time much less make a life or death decision. Drug and Alcohol abuses are rampant and a stupid imature drunk or stoner should not be in posession of a weapon on campus or anywhere for that matter. I have no problem with adult students or staff members carrying on campus but the thought of most of the student body packing gives me nightmares. I already know that my position on this will be unpopular with the college age kids on this board but as a parent and a LEO I cannot support armed students. I am one of the no votes.

That is one of the main arguments, but here is what I don't understand. People are worried that just because some crazy college partying frat boys can suddenly carry on campus (with a license/permit), that they'll all of the sudden go out and get it. But outside of college, they have the right to do it and carry just about anywhere that they want, but they do not do that. If these crazies DO carry other places, apparently they are in fact responsible enough, considering we don't hear about many accidents at parties and whatnot.

It seems to me like the feeling is that once people (who can legally carry in their state) are finally allowed to carry on campus, that EVERYONE will flock to the gun stores and sheriff's office. I don't think that's it at all. I don't think it'll cause much of an increase in gun or CCW ownership. The major difference will be that people that ALREADY had their permits to carry, and regularly carried other places, will finally be able to carry (legally) on campus as well.

[JBHorne]

Originally Posted by spyderman2k4

That is one of the main arguments, but here is what I don't understand. People are worried that just because some crazy college partying frat boys can suddenly carry on campus (with a license/permit), that they'll all of the sudden go out and get it. But outside of college, they have the right to do it and carry just about anywhere that they want, but they do not do that. If these crazies DO carry other places, apparently they are in fact responsible enough, considering we don't hear about many accidents at parties and whatnot.

It seems to me like the feeling is that once people (who can legally carry in their state) are finally allowed to carry on campus, that EVERYONE will flock to the gun stores and sheriff's office. I don't think that's it at all. I don't think it'll cause much of an increase in gun or CCW ownership. The major difference will be that people that ALREADY had their permits to carry, and regularly carried other places, will finally be able to carry (legally) on campus as well.

I do agree with you 'bigun' that it could open a Pandora's box in that it many adults are only adults by age and not be responsibility or mentality for that matter. I happen to consider myself an adult and highly responsible. I hold a very respectable job, and am just generally a good kid. I know, however, that I am in the minority at party schools. But in that regard, I should not be punished for lack of self-defense because others are less responsible than me.

I definitely understand your concern as a parent, and I respect your opinion greatly as an LEO. My parents feel the same way, actually.

I know there is no evidence to support this, but I disagree with 'spyderman2k4' in that student will not all of a sudden get their CCW and start carrying, without any previous firearms experience. Guns could turn into the next iPod revolution in which everyone has one. Again, I realize there is no data to backup these statements, but seeing it first hand, I can say that I think it would happen.

Arizona's CCW requirements are a joke. Almost no 21 year old in college has a criminal background and will thus pass the test with ease. The testing portion was stupid at best. You could literally get the questions wrong and the instructors will provide you with the correct answers. The shooting qualification? Don't even get me started! Placing 10 rounds in a 12" box at 15 feet is NOT a 'qualification' for shooting. I could have done it blindfolded from my hip. It was a joke!

But anyways, I still think opening it to all CCW's is a stretch and will most likely not succeed in congress. I think a more sensible approach would have been to institute a 'marshal program' in which select students could apply to pass all police qualifications regarding firearms instruction and obtain a specialized permit to carry on school grounds.

I personally know people with CCWs that think it is "cool" to shoot like a gangster sideways. They thought the picture that was floating around here with the "hood sights" was legit and actually wanted to purchase them.

21 does not immediately upgrade you to adult status in my book....you earn that.

[jackbauer]

Originally Posted by bigun

Most of the Kids I have run across on campus are too imature mentally to bear the responsibility of getting to class on time much less make a life or death decision.

This is an argument I've heard before and it is really a dangerous one, for a supposed Pro-2A person, to make. Here is the question I would ask you: would you support their right to carry if they weren't college students but were "just" factory workers? What makes them so inherently more dangerous simply because they are college students? Do non-college students drink, party, etc?

Further, your comment displays an overall lack of understanding of the make-up of the student body today. The biggest impact of allowing guns in legal citizens hands on campus would be felt by graduate students and faculty. I happen to be a grad-student myself and resent that I must disarm, as a 39 yr old, when I attend class on-campus. I am, as I type this, in an online class. However, some times it is better to take certain classed on campus.

Finally, let me ask you this: do you think guns CURRENTLY exist on campus? Don't be so naive to answer no...

Is your daughter safer now?

[jackbauer]

Originally Posted by JBHorne

I think a more sensible approach would have been to institute a 'marshal program' in which select students could apply to pass all police qualifications regarding firearms instruction and obtain a specialized permit to carry on school grounds.

That certainly sounds like advocation for some people being "more equal than others". "Police qualifications"? Are you kidding me? That's just asking for that same standard to be applied to other groups. Now, Arizona may have lax CCW qualifications in your mind but what about Vermont or Alaska? They actually "get it" when it comes to the Second Amendment. A college campus is really no different than a city. There are problem people in the city and problem people on a college campus. But why should we disarm to go onto a campus? What makes that place so sacred that it is inherently more safe...so much that I don't "need" to be armed? The bad guys certainly haven't observed the sanctity of a campus...

[Mister XD]

"Be allowed"???

[Mister XD]

Wait... what 2 assholes voted "NO"???? Consider yourselves virtually smacked in the heads.

[jeepinbanditrider]

Why does everyone assume that just becuase weapons will be allowed on campus that the "immature" folks are going to run out and get permits. The people getting permits after a passage of law like that will be the same people that get them now.