Polling Machines which to trust? - XDTalk Forums - Your HS2000/SA-XD Information Source!

Krackels · 08-12-2007, 10:05 AM

I was just thinking about this. Since I started voting I've always used the older lever type machines which I've always felt were more reliable and provided a paper trail which would be very difficult to fake.

But since 2006 we've switched to the newer electronic voting machines. It's basically a piece of paper over top of the machine and when you press the button behind the person you're voting for it lights an LED behind it. After you've selected all of the people you press the red vote button to register your vote.

Krackels · 08-12-2007, 10:13 AM

My rationale is that electronic voting machines have to be programmed and (unlike mechanical voting machines where anyone with a moderate amount of mechanical skills can verify that it is working correctly) therein lies the problem if someone were to program a 'ghost in the machine' how could one verify that the machine worked properly.

At least the mechanical voting machines require a pull of the lever each time to register a vote.

AnakinsKid · 08-12-2007, 10:33 AM

The ones I used last couple times are electronic (touchscreen), but they print a receipt type paper ribbon that is user visible, and you must verify your votes before casting. Best of both worlds. Electronic, with a paper trail.

Krackels · 08-12-2007, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnakinsKid

The ones I used last couple times are electronic (touchscreen), but they print a receipt type paper ribbon that is user visible, and you must verify your votes before casting. Best of both worlds. Electronic, with a paper trail.

Yeah, that's what I was alluding too. There needs to be a paper trail as well as the speed of registering votes with the electronic machines.

Do you get a paper copy of your vote or is the paper just rolled up to verify votes if it's ever disputed?

petey1 · 08-12-2007, 11:41 AM

Electronic voting machines equal bad news in my book. Although I voted that I trust mechanical voting machines, there's still a small amount of distrust in my mind. Standardized machines that are user friendly AND trustworthy (paper trail that can't be faked) are the only way to go. I think the last several elections have proven that new and improved isn't always better. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

AnakinsKid · 08-12-2007, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krackels

Do you get a paper copy of your vote or is the paper just rolled up to verify votes if it's ever disputed?

No, it's just rolled up to verify.

gsh341 · 08-12-2007, 04:09 PM

Voting machines, electronic or otherwise, that do not have a physical means to prove the vote such as a receipt or a ballot, shouldn't be allowed in the US. The only voting machine I have ever used was VERY basic and I trust it completely.

Essentially you slide the ballot into a slot (it only fits one way) and a series of panels cover it. Each panel has only the choices for a group of candidates up for the same seat. A metal rod is then shoved through the ballot and it records your vote. Once you have voted you flip the panel and vote for the next candidate you want for the next seat. After the last panel has been flipped you can pull the ballot and check your votes because the holes you punched should be next to the name of the candidate you chose.

Unless you have a physical means to verify the result you can have a situation like what was postulated in the movie "Man of the Year" where a programming glitch (or hack) caused incorrect votes.

**Ed Ely** · 08-12-2007, 05:01 PM

I did not vote - because you did not have
'Paper ballots' only as a choice.

Any and all electronic devices can be rigged.
We all know that someone has to program the
electronic voting machines. Enough said.

Here in the Commonwealth, there is one
company who provides ALL the voting machines.

The owner of the company, some ol' senior
lady whose hubbie died and left it to her along
with his millions, in my opinion controls the whole
damn state.

I like a paper trail with plenty of documentation.

Edited: I just went back and voted - I don't like
voting machines.

Ed

**einheit 13** · 08-13-2007, 03:11 PM

which polling machines do I like??

**XDAndMe** · 08-13-2007, 11:19 PM

Regardless of whether you use a mechanical or electronic voting machine, there's always a weak link: humans. Someone has to report the results... how much do we trust them?

View Poll Results: Trust polling machines? (Do you trust them?)
Mechanical Voting machines, I trust them.	12	21.82%
Electronic Voting machines, I trust them.	6	10.91%
All voting machines, I trust them.	6	10.91%
I don't trust voting machines.	31	56.36%
Voters: 55. You may not vote on this poll

08-12-2007, 10:05 AM	#1
Krackels XDTalk 15K Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Southeastern PA Posts: 19,604 Blog Entries: 6	Polling Machines which to trust? I was just thinking about this. Since I started voting I've always used the older lever type machines which I've always felt were more reliable and provided a paper trail which would be very difficult to fake. But since 2006 we've switched to the newer electronic voting machines. It's basically a piece of paper over top of the machine and when you press the button behind the person you're voting for it lights an LED behind it. After you've selected all of the people you press the red vote button to register your vote. __________________ "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." --Benjamin Franklin PA Roll Call

08-12-2007, 10:13 AM	#2
Krackels XDTalk 15K Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Southeastern PA Posts: 19,604 Blog Entries: 6	My rationale is that electronic voting machines have to be programmed and (unlike mechanical voting machines where anyone with a moderate amount of mechanical skills can verify that it is working correctly) therein lies the problem if someone were to program a 'ghost in the machine' how could one verify that the machine worked properly. At least the mechanical voting machines require a pull of the lever each time to register a vote. __________________ "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." --Benjamin Franklin PA Roll Call

08-12-2007, 10:33 AM	#3
AnakinsKid XDTalk Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 32	The ones I used last couple times are electronic (touchscreen), but they print a receipt type paper ribbon that is user visible, and you must verify your votes before casting. Best of both worlds. Electronic, with a paper trail. __________________ -I used to have super powers, but my therapist took them away.

08-12-2007, 04:09 PM	#7
gsh341 XDTalk 2K Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Sioux Falls, SD Posts: 2,731	Voting machines, electronic or otherwise, that do not have a physical means to prove the vote such as a receipt or a ballot, shouldn't be allowed in the US. The only voting machine I have ever used was VERY basic and I trust it completely. Essentially you slide the ballot into a slot (it only fits one way) and a series of panels cover it. Each panel has only the choices for a group of candidates up for the same seat. A metal rod is then shoved through the ballot and it records your vote. Once you have voted you flip the panel and vote for the next candidate you want for the next seat. After the last panel has been flipped you can pull the ballot and check your votes because the holes you punched should be next to the name of the candidate you chose. Unless you have a physical means to verify the result you can have a situation like what was postulated in the movie "Man of the Year" where a programming glitch (or hack) caused incorrect votes. __________________ "For those of us who exercised our privilege to serve our country, I can honestly say we did it proudly and shared a common bond of patriotism that those who were unwilling to answer our country's call will never understand or appreciate." - Dennis Foell

08-12-2007, 11:41 AM	#5
petey1 XDTalk 500 Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 677	Electronic voting machines equal bad news in my book. Although I voted that I trust mechanical voting machines, there's still a small amount of distrust in my mind. Standardized machines that are user friendly AND trustworthy (paper trail that can't be faked) are the only way to go. I think the last several elections have proven that new and improved isn't always better. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

08-12-2007, 05:01 PM	#8
Ed Ely XDTalk 5K Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: 37.65N -84.76W (Elev. 932 ft) Posts: 7,835 Blog Entries: 1	I did not vote - because you did not have 'Paper ballots' only as a choice. Any and all electronic devices can be rigged. We all know that someone has to program the electronic voting machines. Enough said. Here in the Commonwealth, there is one company who provides ALL the voting machines. The owner of the company, some ol' senior lady whose hubbie died and left it to her along with his millions, in my opinion controls the whole damn state. I like a paper trail with plenty of documentation. Edited: I just went back and voted - I don't like voting machines. Ed

08-13-2007, 03:11 PM	#9
einheit 13 XDTalk 5K Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Virginia, C.S.A. Posts: 5,917	which polling machines do I like?? __________________ Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, the third time is enemy action “It is the lack of will power, and not the lack of arms which render us incapable of offering any serious resistance.”

08-13-2007, 11:19 PM	#10
XDAndMe XDTalk 3K Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: PA, USA Posts: 3,402	Regardless of whether you use a mechanical or electronic voting machine, there's always a weak link: humans. Someone has to report the results... how much do we trust them?

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