a hypothetical - XDTalk Forums - Your HS2000/SA-XD Information Source!

**jgrauman** · 02-08-2007, 07:42 PM

so you are out running an errand with a friend and decide to go get a beer. you always wear your gun so it's not the first thought on your mind as to whether or not you should go get a beer because you have it on. so you go to the bar/resturant with your piece and have a beer. while drinking your beer a man walks in, shoots a hostess and demands that everyone get on the floor while he continues on to rob the bar. Do you A: shoot the SOB and worry about the consequences later. B: let the robbery happen and pray the guy doesn't kill anybody else.

NoBrAiNr · 02-08-2007, 07:58 PM

If the person robbing the joint has escalated to murder in that short of a time frame, everyone is in danger. It is simply (not to understate the gravity of the situation) a matter of taking your shots when you can get your weapon unobtrusively ready, and fire when you won't unreasonably endanger those around you. (Yeah, I like that, unreasonable.... I can hear it now: 'The perp's committed murder, and you want to wait until things are reasonable to shoot them.') IMO it's all about gun control, the right kind, I mean.

chupacabrachus · 02-08-2007, 08:06 PM

Tough call to make, especially if your permit says void if consuming alcohol or something similar.

**jgrauman** · 02-08-2007, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chupacabrachus

Tough call to make, especially if your permit says void if consuming alcohol or something similar.

this was my main point to the story. would you do "the right thing" and risk possibly going to jail?? or not and have to live with it

robinsre · 02-08-2007, 08:17 PM

I'd shoot.

This individual has already killed someone in cold blood, I have no reason to believe he's not capable of killing again, and next time it could be me.

Would I deny drinking the beer afterwards...yep! I had a sip it was my buddy's he had two beers...I ordered him one because he (insert random favor here) for me and I wanted to buy him one to thank him.

Even if, by chance, I was prosecuted for having alcohol on my breath when I shot it would still follow the old adage :

"Rather judged by 12 than carried by 6"

- Ryan

rev-arb · 02-08-2007, 08:25 PM

Tough call. But, if I was already carrying, I would have to shoot! Maybe, the judge would be gracious.

**philman** · 02-08-2007, 08:27 PM

I would not be in the position in the first place. I'm not much of a fan of the restrictions on where to carry, but I believe the courts would really come down on you the hardest if you violate in a bar, so I would not be there in the first place carrying (because its illegal in my state).

In regard to going to jail, just to do the right thing, here's another view on that. I have children, have a mortgage, have a retirement. Its not just a simple statement of, would I go to jail to do the right thing, the real question, would I likely completely change (probably ruin) the rest of my life, my wife's life, my children's lives, my brother and sisters lives, my mom and dad's lives just to do the right thing. A big part of me says I would not. Now, if the guy starts capping lots of folks, I suppose that's different (if I had the weapon anyway), it looks like I'm gonna get killed too.

One other thing to consider, you might just get killed trying to do the right thing, lots of folks view situation like this from the point of view, I'll just shoot him. I reality, you will "try" to shoot him, and statistically, will not be successful.

I don't even view that as selfish, I view it as a numbers game, there are too many people to be hurt down the line.

The Knight Of Light · 02-08-2007, 10:19 PM

You would not be there, because being the law abiding citizen you are you would not be carrying in an establishment that serves alcohol, nor would you be consuming alcohol while you are carrying your firearm. So for all of us that carry this situation would not apply to us.

Now if you were walking by and saw this whole thing start to go down. Be a good witness. Heroes are people that get other people killed.

Edit: If you really saw someone get shot, would you really rush into a situation you have no inteligence on? Personally I would either wait until they came out and were on my terms, or wait until Cops show. Active shooter senarios are hard to deal with. It is better to have back up or just not go in at all, but if you have to then go get the bad guy!

anhiciano · 02-09-2007, 04:02 AM

I`d shoot that SOB as many times as I can (15rds that I carry

) then make sure my friend shoot him too...as long as we confirm he is SO dead that his soul is on way to hell, grab our beer and leave the place...

I`m almost SURE that no One is going to remember who Shoot the BG

...and maybe...not so sure...maybe...BG could be on the news by midnight.

Sorry if that sounded Nasty...but that`s my 3rd world way of seeing things.

Edit: oh and If we could stop his soul too and keep shooting at him...that would be nice too.

tenring · 02-09-2007, 04:35 AM

Two separate issues. At least in Michigan.

You could be prosecuted for the illegal carry, ie. how did the gun get to the fight? You carried it into an establishement where it is not legal to carry, at least in MI.

You would be justified in the shooting, because of the escalation of the BG. So you couldn't be prosecuted for that just because of the illegal carry.

The moral of the story is really this, If I am a BG, I will only hit establishments that are above the 50% mark so I have less guns to worry about. We can see how well such laws work on evildoers.

Im with the Knight on this one. My gun would be locked in the car, no need for a hypothetical here.

View Poll Results: What do you do?
A: Do something	86	90.53%
B: Do nothing	9	9.47%
Voters: 95. You may not vote on this poll

02-08-2007, 07:42 PM	#1
jgrauman XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Chattanooga, Tn Posts: 434	a hypothetical so you are out running an errand with a friend and decide to go get a beer. you always wear your gun so it's not the first thought on your mind as to whether or not you should go get a beer because you have it on. so you go to the bar/resturant with your piece and have a beer. while drinking your beer a man walks in, shoots a hostess and demands that everyone get on the floor while he continues on to rob the bar. Do you A: shoot the SOB and worry about the consequences later. B: let the robbery happen and pray the guy doesn't kill anybody else. __________________ You see, none of us choose our end really. A king may move a man, a father may claim a son. But remember that, even when those who move you be kings or men of power, your soul is in your keeping alone. When you stand before God you cannot say, "but I was told by others to do thus," or that "virtue was not convenient at the time." This will not suffice. Remember that.

02-08-2007, 07:58 PM	#2
NoBrAiNr XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Allegheny Co., PA Posts: 445	If the person robbing the joint has escalated to murder in that short of a time frame, everyone is in danger. It is simply (not to understate the gravity of the situation) a matter of taking your shots when you can get your weapon unobtrusively ready, and fire when you won't unreasonably endanger those around you. (Yeah, I like that, unreasonable.... I can hear it now: 'The perp's committed murder, and you want to wait until things are reasonable to shoot them.') IMO it's all about gun control, the right kind, I mean. __________________ There comes a time when a man has to grab a bull by the tail, and look the problem in the face!

02-08-2007, 08:17 PM	#5
robinsre XDTalk 2K Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 2,686	I'd shoot. This individual has already killed someone in cold blood, I have no reason to believe he's not capable of killing again, and next time it could be me. Would I deny drinking the beer afterwards...yep! I had a sip it was my buddy's he had two beers...I ordered him one because he (insert random favor here) for me and I wanted to buy him one to thank him. Even if, by chance, I was prosecuted for having alcohol on my breath when I shot it would still follow the old adage : "Rather judged by 12 than carried by 6" - Ryan __________________ Zeroth law of thermodynamics : If you have 1 six pack of beer and your neighbor brings 4 beers over, you will each end up drinking only 5 beers. First law of thermodynamics : There's no such thing as a free beer. Second law of thermodynamics : Even if there was such thing as a free beer, you couldn't drink it all anyway. Third law of thermodynamics : The colder it gets, the less beer you will have.

02-08-2007, 08:25 PM	#6
rev-arb XDTalk 10K Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: West River, South Dakota Posts: 12,961 Blog Entries: 3	Tough call. But, if I was already carrying, I would have to shoot! Maybe, the judge would be gracious. __________________ You got to "post" before you can "TOTP!" Rom. 12:12 "The world has yet to see what God can do with and for and through and in a man who is fully and wholly consecrated to Him." - Henry Varley to DL Moody "I felt only as a man can feel who is roaming over the prairies of the far West, well armed, and mounted on a fleet and gallant steed." - Buffalo Bill

02-08-2007, 08:06 PM	#3
chupacabrachus XDTalk 3K Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,277	Tough call to make, especially if your permit says void if consuming alcohol or something similar.

02-08-2007, 08:27 PM	#7
philman XDTalk 500 Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Centerville, Southern, Ohio Posts: 705	I would not be in the position in the first place. I'm not much of a fan of the restrictions on where to carry, but I believe the courts would really come down on you the hardest if you violate in a bar, so I would not be there in the first place carrying (because its illegal in my state). In regard to going to jail, just to do the right thing, here's another view on that. I have children, have a mortgage, have a retirement. Its not just a simple statement of, would I go to jail to do the right thing, the real question, would I likely completely change (probably ruin) the rest of my life, my wife's life, my children's lives, my brother and sisters lives, my mom and dad's lives just to do the right thing. A big part of me says I would not. Now, if the guy starts capping lots of folks, I suppose that's different (if I had the weapon anyway), it looks like I'm gonna get killed too. One other thing to consider, you might just get killed trying to do the right thing, lots of folks view situation like this from the point of view, I'll just shoot him. I reality, you will "try" to shoot him, and statistically, will not be successful. I don't even view that as selfish, I view it as a numbers game, there are too many people to be hurt down the line. __________________ ***************************** XD - 9mm Subcompact XD - 9mm Service Sig Sauer Mosquito because sometimes you just have to shoot, and shoot, and shoot, and shoot. Last edited by philman : 02-08-2007 at 08:31 PM.

02-08-2007, 10:19 PM	#8
The Knight Of Light XDTalk 5K Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Omaha, Nebraska Posts: 8,707 Blog Entries: 12	You would not be there, because being the law abiding citizen you are you would not be carrying in an establishment that serves alcohol, nor would you be consuming alcohol while you are carrying your firearm. So for all of us that carry this situation would not apply to us. Now if you were walking by and saw this whole thing start to go down. Be a good witness. Heroes are people that get other people killed. Edit: If you really saw someone get shot, would you really rush into a situation you have no inteligence on? Personally I would either wait until they came out and were on my terms, or wait until Cops show. Active shooter senarios are hard to deal with. It is better to have back up or just not go in at all, but if you have to then go get the bad guy! __________________ No Matter Where You Go, There You Are. USPSA #L3077 What a great number!!! http://theknightoflight.blogspot.com/ Creator of TOP 'O' THE PAGE!!! Moose Fight Last edited by The Knight Of Light : 02-08-2007 at 10:29 PM.

02-09-2007, 04:02 AM	#9
anhiciano XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Dominican Republic Posts: 1,012	I`d shoot that SOB as many times as I can (15rds that I carry ) then make sure my friend shoot him too...as long as we confirm he is SO dead that his soul is on way to hell, grab our beer and leave the place... I`m almost SURE that no One is going to remember who Shoot the BG ...and maybe...not so sure...maybe...BG could be on the news by midnight. Sorry if that sounded Nasty...but that`s my 3rd world way of seeing things. Edit: oh and If we could stop his soul too and keep shooting at him...that would be nice too. __________________ HS2000 PORTED BI-TONE “A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity” Sigmund Freud. If Guns are outlawed,Only outlaws will have guns. and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. -Jesus- Last edited by anhiciano : 02-09-2007 at 04:14 AM.

02-09-2007, 04:35 AM	#10
tenring XDTalk 500 Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: MI Posts: 901	Two separate issues. At least in Michigan. You could be prosecuted for the illegal carry, ie. how did the gun get to the fight? You carried it into an establishement where it is not legal to carry, at least in MI. You would be justified in the shooting, because of the escalation of the BG. So you couldn't be prosecuted for that just because of the illegal carry. The moral of the story is really this, If I am a BG, I will only hit establishments that are above the 50% mark so I have less guns to worry about. We can see how well such laws work on evildoers. Im with the Knight on this one. My gun would be locked in the car, no need for a hypothetical here. __________________ "The Sound of freedom is a .45 empty bouncing off the ground" ~ Rob Leatham

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