a hypothetical

[The Knight Of Light]

Originally Posted by jgrauman

just as a discussion point about that first video. i'm not trying to be hard headed, but i've seen that second part with sound and there sure seemed to be a gun shot from the victim. plus as he turns the cop ducks?? if you freeze the frame as the guy turns it sure looks like a gun. (im still looking for the other vid. it was on here before as two different links)

The Live Leak video is hard to see, but on the my 50in TV and better quality video from court tv you could even make out the screen on the phone.

[jgrauman]

Originally Posted by The Knight Of Light

The Live Leak video is hard to see, but on the my 50in TV and better quality video from court tv you could even make out the screen on the phone.

sounds good. i found the original vid, it doesn't have any sound either. i also found the accompanied news artical. you're right... cell phone! my bad

[jdavionic]

If the man has a gun and has threatened to kill, I don't really care what the consequences are...I will kill him if I have the chance. If someone has decided to commit an armed robbery, they have also decided that life is not a concern.

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by jgrauman

if you were on a plane and a man stands up with a box cutter and tells everybody he and his friends are hijacking the plane do you just "be a good witness" as long as he doesn't put the knife to your throat?? where do you draw the line? it seems anymore that as long as it's not happening to me then i'm not going to do anything. i just hope that nothing ever happens to my friends or family while im not around to do anything, because it seems that they would be on their own

While I'm not particularly brave, I'm not a coward. TX law does allow me to shoot a BG to protect life, and if forced to do so by a BG I would do it. But if I'm a long ways in a crowded place, I could do more harm than good, so it always depends on the situation. I've shot enough 'hostages' in matches to know that with my present skills I'd have to make a very careful descision, otherwise I would do more harm than good.

Your scenario here is very different than your original question, we all know about 9/11. But thanks for implying I would be too scared to do anyting.

So people dumb enough to go drinking while armed and willing to not care about errant shots are heroes, but those of us who don't want to drink and carry, and who want to asses every situation before acting like a hothead are cowards? Then I guess I'm a coward. Thanks buddy!!

[jgrauman]

Originally Posted by Miguel

While I'm not particularly brave, I'm not a coward. TX law does allow me to shoot a BG to protect life, and if forced to do so by a BG I would do it. But if I'm a long ways in a crowded place, I could do more harm than good, so it always depends on the situation. I've shot enough 'hostages' in matches to know that with my present skills I'd have to make a very careful descision, otherwise I would do more harm than good.

Your scenario here is very different than your original question, we all know about 9/11. But thanks for implying I would be too scared to do anyting.

So people dumb enough to go drinking while armed and willing to not care about errant shots are heroes, but those of us who don't want to drink and carry, and who want to asses every situation before acting like a hothead are cowards? Then I guess I'm a coward. Thanks buddy!!

wasn't calling you a coward. i asked where you would draw the line between two extremes. and in some states you can drink while carrying, so the law allows you to be "dumb."

[jgrauman]

just so it's clear to everybody reading this thread i would never call anyone a coward unless justified by and action i witnessed and it would be to their face, not in a post. i apologize to you miguel if that's how you took my statement, that's not what it meant. it was making another extreme situation to find out where your line was. i am frustrated with society in general as to their apathy towards others well being. hope there's no hard feelings

[The Knight Of Light]

Originally Posted by jgrauman

and in some states you can drink while carrying

It is still a very bad idea.

Originally Posted by jgrauman

so the law allows you to be "dumb."

No one trained and qualified to carry a firearm is allowed to be "dumb". You still have to make a decision to take someone's life. It is kind of like a doctor having a beer before preforming major surgery. Can you make a hostage rescue shot after having a beer? I know I can't nor would I try. I would not want anyone that has had alcohol to be shooting anywhere near my head either. It is not a question of what would you do, but would you put yourself in that position in the first place.

[The Knight Of Light]

Originally Posted by jgrauman

just so it's clear to everybody reading this thread i would never call anyone a coward unless justified by and action i witnessed and it would be to their face, not in a post. i apologize to you miguel if that's how you took my statement, that's not what it meant. it was making another extreme situation to find out where your line was. i am frustrated with society in general as to their apathy towards others well being. hope there's no hard feelings

It's OK. No one here is a coward. Just good decision makers.

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by jgrauman

wasn't calling you a coward. i asked where you would draw the line between two extremes. and in some states you can drink while carrying, so the law allows you to be "dumb."

If not acting would cost an innocent life, then I shoot (like if a BG goes into a business guns blazing, or if someone was to break into my house). But I have been in a bank that got robbed (I was too poor to have a slingshot then), they guy got some of BofA's $$ and no one was hurt. If some hothead had made a gunfight out of it, many innocent people could have easily gotten hurt over a a few thousand $$ that belonged to BofA. If I saw someone stealing my car, in a lot, it is the $$ wise thing, to call the cops, because if I kill theBG even though the law is on my side, all I need is a punk DA, and a BG family with a lawyer, and I'm screwed. Now if the robber is a threat to me, or another person, he is toast. But you cannot ignore errant shots, getting killed by a 'hero' is no better than getting killed by a BG.

Shame then, because anyone that has ever taught me about guns, weapons, pistols, etc, always stressed that guns and alcohol do not mix. A person with impared judgement, and impared coordination, should not be handling any firearm. While it might take a good bit to think you are drunk, it takes very little for your judgement, and coordination to deteriorate.

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by jgrauman

just so it's clear to everybody reading this thread i would never call anyone a coward unless justified by and action i witnessed and it would be to their face, not in a post. i apologize to you miguel if that's how you took my statement, that's not what it meant. it was making another extreme situation to find out where your line was. i am frustrated with society in general as to their apathy towards others well being. hope there's no hard feelings

feelings? What feelings?

I agree that too many people are apathetic, just look at all the good people that avoid jury duty, so the pool of those doing their duty is dumbed down a lot. Frustrating to be in a jury and half of your fellow jurors don't have clue, and those potential smart jurors found a way out.