A complicated situation...

[BPNovum]

Recently, while visiting San Antonio for a convention, I came upond a terrible traffic accident seconds after it happened. The vehicle that caused the accident sustained the major damage. I rushed over to that truck along with some others to render aid to the driver as it was obvious that he was probably hurt. His vehicle took major damage to the driver's door area.

As I approached the vehicle, I noticed fire in the engine compartment. We started trying to get the driver's door open, but there was no way to open it. Most people were starting to back away because of fear of the vehicle exploding. I yelled for someone to find a fire extinguisher as I went around to the other side. I got in the truck and turned off the vehicle that was somehow still running and worked to get the seatbelt off the driver. At that point I learned that the driver's foot and leg were pinned in the pedal area and we were not going to be able to get him out of the truck.

Fortunately, between shutting off the engine and someone finding a small fire extinguisher, we were able to get the fire out and a catastrophy was avoided. I had someone go find some additional fire extinguishers in case it flared back up and stopped the people from trying to extricate the driver until EMS arrived.

It took the fire department well over 30 minutes to cut him from the truck so obviously, if we hadn't gotten the fire out he would have burned to death in the truck as we were helpless to get him out. His leg was badly broken and he screamed in tortuous pain while they were extracating him. A helicopter arrived after they got him out and they took him by life flight to the hospital. I don't know what happened from there.

Afterwards, the mind does funny things with processing a very disturbing situation. The "what if's" start pouring in. One of those "what if's" that popped into my head, well after the fact, was the following and I would like to hear comments about it.

If we had not been able to get the fire out, it was pretty clear that the driver could have burned to death before our eyes. Here comes the terrible question... As a CHL holder, you are watching someone burn to death and you have an option to put the person out of their misery with your weapon. Could you, should you, would you, use that weapon to mercifully stop the painful death by fire? If you did, what would the police and courts do with this? If you didn't and you watched the person brun to death, how do you live with that knowing you could have stopped their pain?

As I said, all of these thoughts popped into my head well after the fact and, Thank God, we did get the fire out so the option never had to come up, but I think it is an interesting question. Your thoughts?

[[TASF]Overkill]

I have a fire extinguisher on order for my truck... So hopefully if I were ever in that situation, I'd be set.

But... not a chance I'd "mercy" the guy out.

Perhaps I "should" be able to, but I know I'd be "burned alive" in court for it.

[mr0w1]

Absolutely not. First off, that's not my call. Second off, I carry a gun for one reason, and one alone -- to defend myself and others from danger or harm. While yes, the fire does harm, you can't very well shoot the fire. In my opinion, shooting the driver would be like shooting a rape victim instead of the rapist.

Just my opinion.

Now for the facts: You did a great job. You didn't let irrational fear take hold of you, you kept a clear head, and most importantly, you took charge, and saved that guy's life. Major props to you.

[tec]

You did the right thing by aiding in the rescue and saving a life. It sounds like you did all the right things, motor off, fire extinguisher for fire and getting spares in case it flared back up.

As far as doing a mercy shooting, how do you know at what point it would be merciful. How do you know that is what they would want. There are many people out there who are still alive after suffering burns on their body, and quite happy I am sure to be alive with some physical problems instead of being dead. I am pretty certain EMT's stop after the person has died, not before.

Can you imagine the legal problems that the family of said accident would bring upon you? "well, my husband may have survived until the EMT's got there....but instead this guy shot him in the head, he's a murderer..."

While I have helped many accident victims, and will continue to do so, one has to be careful of how involved you get. Some friend's of ours were helping some of their friends move out of their apt. this past weekend . They heard the neighbors arguing again in the common hallway, boyfriend and girlfriend. The arguing neighbors were out in the hallway and our friends went out into the hallway to calm the situation, he got in between the arguers physically, when the arguing boyfriend pulled a pistol from his pocket and shot his arguing girl friend 7 times in the chest, then shot himself, both are dead. These friends could have been killed had this guy missed his target , as it is they have 7 bullet holes in their apt. front door. They chose to help in one manner, but should have called the police before getting IN THE MIDDLE of the fight. Yes both would still be dead, but they would not have blood and brain matter splattered all over them.

It's not easy, but you have to pick, in the blink of an eye, if you help and how far you help somebody, and the consequences. I had a car flip a couple of times in front of me a few years back, I got the driver out of the car, she was choking on her tongue, but kept snapping her teeth down, I was not going to loose my fingers in her mouth while trying to get her tongue out. She lived, after the EMT's got there and yanked her tongue out. I decided to help, but I picked a point at which to stop helping. Deciding to "mercy" shoot someone would be beyond, way beyond the point at which I "help" somebody.

Monday morning quarter backing is always easy.

[SLCDave]

I'm glad things turned out as well as they did. Good job!

[beardman2]

good job and clear thinking!

As for mercy... its a noble idea but how do you know when the person is injured to the point of no return and is ready to let go? Let alone the legal crap afterword. No laws in AZ for mercy killing so it would be me not the fire that killed them.

Tec: Jesus! I wouldn't want to see that! Calling the cops first obviously would have been a good idea. then again everything is obvious after the fact.

[bd1]

I'd hand him the gun.

bd

[Ed 2001 SS]

Originally Posted by bd1

I'd hand him the gun.

bd

Not me. I wouldn't want my XD to melt.

As to the poll:

I would not choose option 1 because if I could not rescue the victim myself, I can call the EMTs rather than do nothing.
Option 2 would make me a murderer. You shoot an animal when it's severely injured. When a person is severely injured, you treat him medically until the person either gets better or dies.
I would not choose Option 4 because I would definitely do something.

[jcrich33]

First, outstanding job BP! There are too many people who would have done nothing (not on this board, but in general).

I don't think a mercy killing would be good in this situation. The legal side (criminal and civil) alone is enough to say it's a bad idea. Medically, as has been shown, the human body can withstand a lot at times.

[Brickboy240]

Use my firearm for that? Absolutely not.

Hell, grab a rock or tire iron and bash out the window, reach in and pull the door handle and drag the person out. The fire is in the engine compartment, the gas tank is most likely in the rear of the car...you have more time than you think.

Yes, if I could not get to a fire extinguisher (if you don't have one in the car, most tanker trailers are required by DOT to carry one) then bash the damn window and drag the person out.

Guns have no place in that kind of emergency, sorry.

- Brickboy240

PS - if you drive an older car (like my 1991 Volvo 240)...you NEED to carry a fire extinguisher in the trunk. You just never know with older cars...chances are your car will never catch fire, if you (like me) are meticilious about maintenance and keep the engine bay clean. They're cheap...go to Wal Mart and get one.