Vatican Cardinal Says Gaza Like A **** Death Camp

[XDConvert9mm]

Originally Posted by Etta Place

How many people have the Israelis killed in the last week or so? How many children?

The topic was Hamas and their home made rockets and their antagonism of a superior power. Can we get back to this?

[Carnivorous]

Originally Posted by Etta Place

No link. No site listed. No date. Who the f*ck knows what this is?

Uh, learn to google...?

Hamas Fires Long-Range Chinese Rockets at Israel (Updated) | Danger Room from Wired.com

[billbrasky]

Originally Posted by Etta Place

No link. No site listed. No date. Who the f*ck knows what this is?

link for the death toll you quoted? Just the guys name, so i can dismiss him if only in my mind if you post on him in the future.

I know the number you quoted was way off just from reading headlines, or CNN news ticker etc. I would like to know how he counted 13 only.

Just to be fair.

By the way he would have been nice to include a link, he probably will. Sounds legit to me though. I didnt know the names of all the pales weapon systems, i knew they werent home made.

The dont make anything of any substance in palestinan controled gaza, they sure as hell dont make good misles in their garages custom one off, off the cuff.

[Etta Place]

Originally Posted by Frenchy

So you feel Hamas should have free reign, with no Israeli response.

No. I never said that. I don't know what they should have done but they can't keep doing this. It's disgusting and they are losing support each time they do this kind of thing. Hamas is not "right" or virtuous. But, the Palestinians have a right to their own land, their own state and their own government.

[Etta Place]

Originally Posted by XDConvert9mm

The topic was Hamas and their home made rockets and their antagonism of a superior power. Can we get back to this?

The topic is the Vatican Cardinal saying that Gaza is like a concentration camp.

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by Etta Place

No. I never said that. I don't know what they should have done but they can't keep doing this. It's disgusting and they are losing support each time they do this kind of thing. Hamas is not "right" or virtuous. But, the Palestinians have a right to their own land, their own state their own government.

Unfortunately, your sympathies seem totally one-sided.

[afmo]

Originally Posted by Etta Place

No. I never said that. I don't know what they should have done but they can't keep doing this. It's disgusting and they are losing support each time they do this kind of thing. Hamas is not "right" or virtuous. But, the Palestinians have a right to their own land, their own state their own government.

well, they have a defacto land now, and they elected a government who insists on attacking the people who are more powerful than they are...

sounds to me like the palestinians are getting what they deserve.

don't like it? don't vote for terrorist assholes to run your government

[bluemoonlabel]

Originally Posted by Etta Place

No link. No site listed. No date. Who the f*ck knows what this is?

Hamas Fires Long-Range Chinese Rockets at Israel (Updated)
By Noah Shachtman December 31, 2008 | 2:46:00 PMCategories: Ammo And Munitions, Eye On China, Sabras, T Is For Terror, Terror Tech

Hamas Fires Long-Range Chinese Rockets at Israel (Updated) | Danger Room from Wired.com

language, language, Etta tisk tisk

[Etta Place]

Originally Posted by billbrasky

this says 13 died just in 2007

Death toll in Arab-Israeli conflict fell in 2007 | World news | The Guardian

From your article:

On Sunday, Olmert issued an order halting new construction in West Bank settlements without his approval. A similar understanding has been reached for East Jerusalem settlements, officials said. The move seems designed to prevent surprise announcements of new house building in the settlements, which are illegal under international law, while Israelis and Palestinians try to restart serious peace talks.

[Etta Place]

Why Do So Few Speak Up for Gaza?
Posted on Jan 6, 2009
By Robert Scheer

Why are we so indifferent to the death and destruction in Gaza?

The major news outlets meekly accepted Israel’s banning of journalists from entering Gaza as an excuse for downplaying collateral civilian casualties, our president-elect, Barack Obama, has had little to say about an invasion that will much complicate his future Mideast peace efforts, and most commentators easily rationalize Israel’s many-more-eyes-for-an-eye killings.

Why is it that there is such widespread acceptance, beginning with the apologetic arguments of President Bush, that whatever Israel does is always justified as necessary to the survival of the Jewish state?

It is not.

While the Hamas rocket attacks are reprehensible, they are also an ineffectual challenge to Israel’s enormous security apparatus, and the severity of Israel’s response to them is counterproductive. Clearly, the very existence of Israel is not now, nor has it ever been, seriously challenged by anything the Palestinians did. Not back in 1948, when Israel was established as a state with insignificant Palestinian military resistance, nor at the time of the 1967 Six-Day War when Egypt, Syria and Jordan fought Israel.

The Palestinians were in no position to confront the Israeli army, because those whose lands were not already occupied by Israel were living under oppressive Egyptian control in Gaza and tough Jordanian rule in the West Bank. After the speedy Israeli victory, which demolished the myth of the new state’s vulnerability, the Palestinians became imprisoned as a people by Israel for crimes they had not committed.

Even if we accept the harshest portrayal of the tactics and motives of the Palestinian movements against Israel after the Six-Day War, at what point did that terrorism represent a serious challenge to the survival of the Jewish people or the state that claims to speak in their name? Yet that survival is invoked to justify the vastly excessive use of force by the Israeli war machine, with frequent allusions to the Holocaust previously visited upon the Jewish people, a holocaust that had nothing to do with Palestinians or Muslims, and everything to do with Central Europeans claiming to be Christians.

The high moral claim of the Israeli occupation rests not on the objective reality of a Palestinian threat to Israel’s survival, but rather on the non sequitur cry that “never again” should harm come to Jews as it did in Central Europe seven decades ago.

The basic argument is that Palestinian terrorists represented by Hamas are given to an irrational hatred of Jews so profound that it invalidates their movement, even when they win elections. That was not the view of the Israeli security service when it earlier supported Hamas as the alternative to the then dreaded PLO. Also, history is replete with examples of terrorists becoming statesmen, even within the early ranks of Jews fighting to establish the state of Israel.

One of those was Menachem Begin, who went on to be an elected leader of the new state. But before Begin attained that respectability, back in 1948 when he visited the United States, a group of prominent Jewish intellectuals including Albert Einstein, Sidney Hook and Hannah Arendt wrote a letter to The New York Times warning that Begin was a former leader of the “Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine.” The letter urged Jews to shun Begin, arguing, “It is inconceivable that those who oppose fascism throughout the world, if correctly informed as to Mr. Begin’s political record and perspectives, could add their names and support to the movement he represents.”

Begin’s new party was then participating in the Israeli election, and Einstein and his colleagues, many of whom like the physicist had been victims of German fascism, stated, “Today they speak of freedom, democracy and anti-imperialism, whereas until recently they openly preached the doctrine of the Fascist state. It is in its actions that the terrorist party betrays its real character.”

Those actions were then detailed in the letter. They included the systematic terrorizing of innocent Palestinian men, women and children in an effort to force them to flee the territory that Begin’s party claimed for the new state of Israel.

Clearly Begin and his political heirs, who include Benjamin Netanyahu, the most likely victor in the next Israeli election, evolved in their behavior. But I bring it up now to highlight the one-sided reporting of the current phase of this interminable conflict and to wonder: Where are the voices that reflect the uncompromising morality of Einstein’s generation of Jewish intellectuals willing to acknowledge fault and humanity on both sides of the political equation?

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/...k_up_for_gaza/