20,000 troops to be deployed in U.S.

[AZXD]

Originally Posted by XDfan4ever

I must agree with you K.A. Don't see that happening. Unless, Martial Law is declared. That would take something very serious to justify it. And if it did; The Citizens would greatly outnumber 20,000. Plus, at least 1/2 or more Military would defect.

The very serious thing could be something as simple as a failed economy and the resultant unrest it would cause upon the streets ... The list is almost endless when one looks at the justification for Martial Law to be imposed, and it doesn't require the actions of a dictator to enact such a thing.

Will anything like that ever happen ?? ... Who knows !!

[AZXD]

Originally Posted by sewerman

from the thread about ron paul's maifesto on revolution:

i agree to diagree on the statement above. the strong argument for the all volunteer forces was that the volunteer force would be cheaper in the long run to maintain, since the training needed for the newer weapon systems required longer schooling and the 2 year draftee was out before giving back thru serving what was spent in schooling. this idea was just one of the arugments for this type of armed forces. then why not increase the draft to 3 years or 2 years and 2 years reserve? or for that matter just use the draftees in the less technological areas, cooks, infantry, transporation, etc, etc.
my point here is the old army of a professional officer's and NCO staff over draftees seemed cheaper.
lets remember either way they are paid.
when people risk their livelihood and security over arresting their fellow countrymen who they have been taught are anti-american then the interment camps will fill up.
i believe a draftee basic soldier might be more civilian minded and question the due process of completeing such a mission.
one could always suggest that such missions would only be assigned to the career soldiers.
my own experience having served for 27 years is most folks when threatened with loosing the security of a paycheck and security of their families might choose to go along with the game plan whatever it may be.
this is a strong human trait that our leaders know all too well.
i served with several NCO's and one Officer who stated if given the orders to shoot fellow american during protest they would refuse.
a very difficult decision to make for reasons aforementoned........
i'm not questioning the patriot spirit or bravery of our servicemen and women.
each one of them has a self interrpeted view of the political right and remember they are sworn to protect the Constitution and follow orders.
so with this in mind along with the paycheck/security of family issue, it would take a very informed,clear minded, resolute person to determine that the order to shoot or arrest americans was a breach of the bill of rights.
i truely hope our fine servicemen and women as well as our counrty never has to make such a decision.

i still support the draft and reserve duty to 55 yrs old like several european nations.

sewerman
__________________
the armed citizen prevents tyranny

"They that can give up an essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety!" Ben Franklin

"When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny!" Thomas Jefferson

my job smells like poop, but it's bread and butter to me!

Here ya go folks ... A 27 year service man telling us the power of the dollar is more powerful than Constitutional authority due to an all volunteer military ... While the same group being comprised of draftee's might be more inclined to disobey an unlawful order.

Now that's got to make everyone feel better.

If all goes well, nothing will happen.
If everything goes to hell ... It will be a few civilians against those who get paid to fight.

I have to agree with sewerman,
"i truely hope our fine servicemen and women as well as our counrty never has to make such a decision" ... Because we all know there are some dollar driven people living amongst us, and I'm pretty sure at least a few of those don't have a clue about the Bill of Rights.

[Etta Place]

Originally Posted by KingArthur

Could be, it could be the "Biden Prophecy" comming to fruition, with the enemies of the United States recognizing we will have a very weak executive in comparison to the last 8 years.

He doesn't look weak to me, and the national security team he rolled out yesterday looks VERY strong.

[Krackels]

Originally Posted by Ishpeck

I'm okay with this as long as the troops wear power armor and call themselves "The Brotherhood of Steel."

And only if I can get to play with the alien blaster.

Seriously though this news is kinda troubling... I'm not sure what the thinking heads have planned but I don't like it.

[DMWyatt]

Originally Posted by Krackels

And only if I can get to play with the alien blaster.

Seriously though this news is kinda troubling... I'm not sure what the thinking heads have planned but I don't like it.

It does kind of make you wonder. The press I've seen makes it look like a Pentagon initiative. Could it be job security? The talk of cutting the military drastically has been in the minds of a lot of people on capital hill for the past 4 years.

[AZXD]

Originally Posted by Krackels

And only if I can get to play with the alien blaster.

Seriously though this news is kinda troubling... I'm not sure what the thinking heads have planned but I don't like it.

This is what the have planned - (PV) House Passes Thought Crime Prevention Bill - You can easily conspiracy theory it into all of us being guilty of something

[sewerman]

just saw this on the steyr.com site............

Pentagon to detail plan to bolster security
Plan would dedicate 20,000 uniformed troops inside U.S. by 2011
By Spencer S. Hsu and Ann Scott Tyson
The Washington Post
updated 10:46 p.m. CT, Sun., Nov. 30, 2008

The U.S. military expects to have 20,000 uniformed troops inside the United States by 2011 trained to help state and local officials respond to a nuclear terrorist attack or other domestic catastrophe, according to Pentagon officials.

The long-planned shift in the Defense Department's role in homeland security was recently backed with funding and troop commitments after years of prodding by Congress and outside experts, defense analysts said.

There are critics of the change, in the military and among civil liberties groups and libertarians who express concern that the new homeland emphasis threatens to strain the military and possibly undermine the Posse Comitatus Act, a 130-year-old federal law restricting the military's role in domestic law enforcement.

But the Bush administration and some in Congress have pushed for a heightened homeland military role since the middle of this decade, saying the greatest domestic threat is terrorists exploiting the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction.

Before the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, dedicating 20,000 troops to domestic response -- a nearly sevenfold increase in five years -- "would have been extraordinary to the point of unbelievable," Paul McHale, assistant defense secretary for homeland defense, said in remarks last month at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. But the realization that civilian authorities may be overwhelmed in a catastrophe prompted "a fundamental change in military culture," he said.

The Pentagon's plan calls for three rapid-reaction forces to be ready for emergency response by September 2011. The first 4,700-person unit, built around an active-duty combat brigade based at Fort Stewart, Ga., was available as of Oct. 1, said Gen. Victor E. Renuart Jr., commander of the U.S. Northern Command.

If funding continues, two additional teams will join nearly 80 smaller National Guard and reserve units made up of about 6,000 troops in supporting local and state officials nationwide. All would be trained to respond to a domestic chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear, or high-yield explosive attack, or CBRNE event, as the military calls it.

Military preparations for a domestic weapon-of-mass-destruction attack have been underway since at least 1996, when the Marine Corps activated a 350-member chemical and biological incident response force and later based it in Indian Head, Md., a Washington suburb. Such efforts accelerated after the Sept. 11 attacks, and at the time Iraq was invaded in 2003, a Pentagon joint task force drew on 3,000 civil support personnel across the United States.

In 2005, a new Pentagon homeland defense strategy emphasized "preparing for multiple, simultaneous mass casualty incidents." National security threats were not limited to adversaries who seek to grind down U.S. combat forces abroad, McHale said, but also include those who "want to inflict such brutality on our society that we give up the fight," such as by detonating a nuclear bomb in a U.S. city.

In late 2007, Deputy Defense Secretary Gordon England signed a directive approving more than $556 million over five years to set up the three response teams, known as CBRNE Consequence Management Response Forces. Planners assume an incident could lead to thousands of casualties, more than 1 million evacuees and contamination of as many as 3,000 square miles, about the scope of damage Hurricane Katrina caused in 2005.

Last month, McHale said, authorities agreed to begin a $1.8 million pilot project funded by the Federal Emergency Management Agency through which civilian authorities in five states could tap military planners to develop disaster response plans. Hawaii, Massachusetts, South Carolina, Washington and West Virginia will each focus on a particular threat -- pandemic flu, a terrorist attack, hurricane, earthquake and catastrophic chemical release, respectively -- speeding up federal and state emergency planning begun in 2003.

Last Monday, Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates ordered defense officials to review whether the military, Guard and reserves can respond adequately to domestic disasters.

Gates gave commanders 25 days to propose changes and cost estimates. He cited the work of a congressionally chartered commission, which concluded in January that the Guard and reserve forces are not ready and that they lack equipment and training.

Bert B. Tussing, director of homeland defense and security issues at the U.S. Army War College's Center for Strategic Leadership, said the new Pentagon approach "breaks the mold" by assigning an active-duty combat brigade to the Northern Command for the first time. Until now, the military required the command to rely on troops requested from other sources.

"This is a genuine recognition that this [job] isn't something that you want to have a pickup team responsible for," said Tussing, who has assessed the military's homeland security strategies.

The American Civil Liberties Union and the libertarian Cato Institute are troubled by what they consider an expansion of executive authority.

Domestic emergency deployment may be "just the first example of a series of expansions in presidential and military authority," or even an increase in domestic surveillance, said Anna Christensen of the ACLU's National Security Project. And Cato Vice President Gene Healy warned of "a creeping militarization" of homeland security.

"There's a notion that whenever there's an important problem, that the thing to do is to call in the boys in green," Healy said, "and that's at odds with our long-standing tradition of being wary of the use of standing armies to keep the peace."

McHale stressed that the response units will be subject to the act, that only 8 percent of their personnel will be responsible for security and that their duties will be to protect the force, not other law enforcement. For decades, the military has assigned larger units to respond to civil disturbances, such as during the Los Angeles riot in 1992.

U.S. forces are already under heavy strain, however. The first reaction force is built around the Army's 3rd Infantry Division's 1st Brigade Combat Team, which returned in April after 15 months in Iraq. The team includes operations, aviation and medical task forces that are to be ready to deploy at home or overseas within 48 hours, with units specializing in chemical decontamination, bomb disposal, emergency care and logistics.

The one-year domestic mission, however, does not replace the brigade's next scheduled combat deployment in 2010. The brigade may get additional time in the United States to rest and regroup, compared with other combat units, but it may also face more training and operational requirements depending on its homeland security assignments.

Renuart said the Pentagon is accounting for the strain of fighting two wars, and the need for troops to spend time with their families. "We want to make sure the parameters are right for Iraq and Afghanistan," he said. The 1st Brigade's soldiers "will have some very aggressive training, but will also be home for much of that."

Although some Pentagon leaders initially expected to build the next two response units around combat teams, they are likely to be drawn mainly from reserves and the National Guard, such as the 218th Maneuver Enhancement Brigade from South Carolina, which returned in May after more than a year in Afghanistan.

Now that Pentagon strategy gives new priority to homeland security and calls for heavier reliance on the Guard and reserves, McHale said, Washington has to figure out how to pay for it.

"It's one thing to decide upon a course of action, and it's something else to make it happen," he said. "It's time to put our money where our mouth is."

© 2008 The Washington Post Company

[LUVMYSIGP225]

Originally Posted by ichy_trigger

This definately worries me!

Hey Ichy. It will be fun taking their $hit. I drive, you gun. We need a loader and a commander. (or, if you don't mind sitting up top)

[KingArthur]

Originally Posted by Etta Place

He doesn't look weak to me, and the national security team he rolled out yesterday looks VERY strong.

Yeah, that is why Pelosi is ruling the roost and upstaging him every chance she gets-because even she smells blood in the water.

[newKid]

Originally Posted by Ishpeck

I'm okay with this as long as the troops wear power armor and call themselves "The Brotherhood of Steel."