Bailout idea

[Brickboy240]

Oh please...the UAW knows EXACTLY what it is doing to the car companies. They have slowly gotten them more over the barrel as time went by. The US big 3 also allowed it to happen..thinking "well...we cannot make it without them." Big mistake.

The UAW is alot like big govt - it is run by greedy, not-ready-for-the-real-workforce people that offer attractive short term solutions with little future sight. They honestly cannot see more than a few years ahead of them. That is why the UAW..and govt....are in the places we find them today. Its a flat out miracle that the big 3 automakers made it until the year 2008...just a miracle.

The left would lead you to believe that the unions like the UAW are totally vital, otherwise we'd see workers treated in all sort of abusive ways. To the left and alot of folks in big media...ALL CEOs and business owners are the Enron execs. This is simply not true...not even close.

There are federal and state laws now in place that protect workers fom employer abuses. Laws that were not in place back when the unions began their rise to power.

Also, the free job market works wonders for rooting out the bad employers. Word gets out and people choose to not work for companies that mistreat or underpay their workers. How many people here, do you think, have left bad employers in the hope of finding one that treats people better? I bet almost every one here has done this.

So yes, once again, get the unions and big govt. out of the factories and you'll be amazed at the productivity and quality of products that will come out of the big 3 car makers.

Bail them out financially and require little or no oversight or payback schedule and we'll be facing this same demon in a few years...over and over again.

This is our choice...

- Brickboy240

[Ride the Lightning]

Originally Posted by AwPhuch

If they knew all the profits going out as "dividends" to the stock holders, and to the higher ups in the company...they would say "holy crap" these guys are robbing the company blind..getting rich off our work and paying us crap!

Paying you crap?!?! Give me a break. Union workers get paid well above what they could earn without the union and that's usually more than they deserve for the job they're doing. If you're in the UAW you have an artificially inflated wage already and don't think it's good enough because that's what the union brainwashes you with.

When SBC CEO left he took over 136MILLION in cash, and probably 2x that in stock options, and then gets 6 MILLION for the rest of his life as a "consulting" fee, along with many other HUGE benefits...

No argument there. You shouldn't get that kind of compensation for running a company into the ground. Corporate golden parachutes need to go away and be replaced with corporate golden showers. If you can't run the comany well enough to turn a profit, piss on ya!

we at the bottom who do all the work are fixing to loose our medical benefits and NOT get a raise to fill the gap when we have to buy our own insurance...

Maybe if you're wages were more in line with the norm instead of artificially inflated they would have more money to throw your way when it comes time to talk about raises.

all the while they laid off a few thousand workers here, a few thousand there, and bought a few other companies for BILLIONS of dollars. all the while telling the employees and the union they are too broke to give them a raise or even keep medical/dental benefits!

You mean they traded a cost center for a profit center? You're right, that is just bad business. While I don't agree with a lot of business practices, I can't blame a company for wanting to expand. They can expand on financing and pay it off over time or through creative stock tricks. Your paycheck and benefits are not so beneficial, they have to be backed by cash right now.

Without the union..the company would $h1t upon its employees and give them NOTHING...

Horsesh!t. Ever heard of earning you wage? It's what good employees do. When you're a good worker you are an asset to the company and they want to keep you. If they don't treat you right, you go somewhere that will. As for GIVING you nothing, the company shouldn't give you ANYTHING, you should earn it. And don't use working conditions as a crutch. The union hasn't truly fought for decent working conditions in 38 years. What they have demanded is airconditioned and heated work conditions, which does nothing but take more money from the company that they could have passed on to the workers. My cousin's shop cost him $1500/month to air condition and it was only about 3500 sq. ft. How much do you think an auto plant costs each month?

all the company cares about is protecting its stock price, protecting its dividends, and protecting the pockets of the stock holders,

That's the company's job!

by laying off a few thousand they can keep the stock up 2/10ths of a point and give the multi millionaire stock holders a few extra $10K each quarter they get..yet those several thousand people who were laid off now my loose their houses or whatever

If the guys on the floor could manage to do their jobs without bitching and crying about everything and needing a 20 minute break every 10 minutes and other stupid union crap the company could be productive enough that layoffs wouldn't be necessary. Of course, without the union, a common unskilled laborer wouldn't have the means to get into a 3500 sq. ft. home in the first place and hard times might not hurt quite as bad.

...yah...companies will treat their employees fairly..MY BUTT!!!!

The companies are just as fair with employees as employees are with the company. Loyalty is a two way street. If the employees vote in a union that is a slap in the face to a company. If I owned a company that went union on me I would fire every one of them and start over with people that were willing to work for a fair wage instead of demanding more than they are worth. There is no reason for an unskilled laborer to make $60k-70k/year, but they think they are worth that. How well do you think the union treats you? How much do you bring home when the union decides to go on strike even if you are perfectly happy with what you've got? Of course that is a hypothetical question since no union member is every content at work, they just want more.

If you think the union has your back or gives a crap about you or your coworkers you are absolutely nuts. The union serves nothing but it's on empowerment.

[KEVWYO]

Originally Posted by AwPhuch

If they knew all the profits going out as "dividends" to the stock holders, and to the higher ups in the company...they would say "holy crap" these guys are robbing the company blind..getting rich off our work and paying us crap!

When SBC CEO left he took over 136MILLION in cash, and probably 2x that in stock options, and then gets 6 MILLION for the rest of his life as a "consulting" fee, along with many other HUGE benefits...we at the bottom who do all the work are fixing to loose our medical benefits and NOT get a raise to fill the gap when we have to buy our own insurance...all the while they laid off a few thousand workers here, a few thousand there, and bought a few other companies for BILLIONS of dollars. all the while telling the employees and the union they are too broke to give them a raise or even keep medical/dental benefits!

Without the union..the company would $h1t upon its employees and give them NOTHING...all the company cares about is protecting its stock price, protecting its dividends, and protecting the pockets of the stock holders, by laying off a few thousand they can keep the stock up 2/10ths of a point and give the multi millionaire stock holders a few extra $10K each quarter they get..yet those several thousand people who were laid off now my loose their houses or whatever...yah...companies will treat their employees fairly..MY BUTT!!!!

I was going to reply in detail but others like BB, RTL, and FTN did so much better than I could've. Bottom line is the labor costs are the biggest problem for the Big 3 automakers. I could be wrong but I'll go out on a limb and say at the very least that if the big 3 are to survive the UAW is going to have to make major concessions or nobody in the Big 3 will be employed.

[Tard]

A bum stops you on the street, asks for $1, saying he used to have a job and family but poor decisions and fate put him in these dire straits.
Says he's only $1 short of affording a sandwich.
You give him the money and walk away.
Looking back, you see him entering a liquor store.
Multiply this by 700 billion.

[Ride the Lightning]

That's why you don't give him a dollar, you offer him a sandwich. If he doesn't like what's on the sandwich he must not be very damn hungry and you needed a sandwich anyway, right?

[DMWyatt]

Originally Posted by Ride the Lightning

That's why you don't give him a dollar, you offer him a sandwich. If he doesn't like what's on the sandwich he must not be very damn hungry and you needed a sandwich anyway, right?

You give him neither. You walk into the liquor store and get him an application for employment and a pen. Sure, he'd never get the job in a million years, but you would have just done something 110% more relevant than what the government's going to do for him.

Besides if a dude on the streets doesn't have money for booze he's lazy. There's plenty of agencies out there we pay tax dollars for to throw money at everyone who walks in the door.