Obama Encourages Individual, Government, Wall Street Responsibility

[Etta Place]

Originally Posted by Powerman

Then why do so many of his policies encourage and enable such behavior??? Why does he think the rich should foot more of the bill for those behaviors???

So what is he going to do to change HIMSELF. I didn't hear anything about his personal responsibility. Or is he just concerned with changing me???

It's my impression that Obama believes that supply side economics has not worked because the middle class has seen wages stagnating and their standard of living squeezed. We have seen economic growth, but the benefits have accrued disproportionately to those at the top. And, he thinks tax policy has greatly contributed to this inequality.

I think what Obama means to do is give tax cuts to middle class people like me to attempt to balance out this situation. I think he means to rescue the economy first and then once it's stabilized he expects people to pull their load. This is my opinion based on what I have heard Obama say.

They discussed this inequality issue on Bill Maher's show the other night.

Maher: A statistic I just read said the income inequality...in 2005, the top 1% have the same amount of money they did in 1928 right before the Great Depression. It's interesting...FDR's Fed chairman in 1951, Marriner Ecccles, had an interesting comment after the Depression. He said it was largely because of income inequality. When the rich people have so much money, it screws up the system.

He said,"As in a poker game where the chips were concentrated in fewer and fewer hands, the other fellows could stay in the game only by borrowing. When their credit ran out, the game stopped."

[AZXD]

Originally Posted by Etta Place

They discussed this inequality issue on Bill Maher's show the other night.

Did you watch the Hannity special on Obama ??

[Etta Place]

Originally Posted by AZXD

Did you watch the Hannity special on Obama ??

No. I cannot stand Sean Hannity.

[Powerman]

Originally Posted by Etta Place

It's my impression that Obama believes that supply side economics has not worked because the middle class has seen wages stagnating and their standard of living squeezed. We have seen economic growth, but the benefits have accrued disproportionately to those at the top. And, he thinks tax policy has greatly contributed to this inequality.

I think what Obama means to do is give tax cuts to middle class people like me to attempt to balance out this situation. I think he means to rescue the economy first and then once it's stabilized he expects people to pull their load. This is my opinion based on what I have heard Obama say.

They discussed this inequality issue on Bill Maher's show the other night.

How can you possibly beleive a progressive tax system is to blame for economic disparity. When the rich are taxed at 40%, and every politician at election time promises tax cuts for the middle class. It is a hollow promise.

If he truely wanted parity and personal responsibility, why not a flat tax, or sales tax. Why not promote fair tax?? Why continue with the same old Washington shell game of tax cuts while the burrden continues to increase?

His tax cuts are not cuts, they are credits. That means that tax payers, will be handing over checks to non tax payers. The big majority of those do not work, or are already on Government subsistence. How about they have to work for it?? Do community service that he is so big on. Why do I as a tax payer have to give more to those that do not contribute??? Where is personal responsibility in that???

He can fix what ever he wants. It isn't hard. What he wants to do is continue the Washington shell game. To continue the promise of give aways to the middle class. No change there. Buisness as usual.

[Etta Place]

Originally Posted by Powerman

How can you possibly beleive a progressive tax system is to blame for economic disparity. When the rich are taxed at 40%, and every politician at election time promises tax cuts for the middle class. It is a hollow promise.

If he truely wanted parity and personal responsibility, why not a flat tax, or sales tax. Why not promote fair tax?? Why continue with the same old Washington shell game of tax cuts while the burrden continues to increase?

His tax cuts are not cuts, they are credits. That means that tax payers, will be handing over checks to non tax payers. The big majority of those do not work, or are already on Government subsistence. How about they have to work for it?? Do community service that he is so big on. Why do I as a tax payer have to give more to those that do not contribute??? Where is personal responsibility in that???

He can fix what ever he wants. It isn't hard. What he wants to do is continue the Washington shell game. To continue the promise of give aways to the middle class. No change there. Buisness as usual.

You don't have to answer if you don't want, but are you one of the people who will be taxed at a higher rate under the Obama plan?

As I said in the other thread, I don't know if Obama's plan will improve things. You may be right that we need to throw out the current tax system and replace it with a flat or fair tax. Right now, I am willing to take a risk with Obama because I think our country is on the completely WRONG path right now and needs to change course.

[Powerman]

Originally Posted by Etta Place

You don't have to answer if you don't want, but are you one of the people who will be taxed at a higher rate under the Obama plan?

As I said in the other thread, I don't know if Obama's plan will improve things. You may be right that we need to throw out the current tax system and replace it with a flat or fair tax. Right now, I am willing to take a risk with Obama because I think our country is on the completely WRONG path right now and needs to change course.

No, I'm not in that tax bracket. But I also don't believe I will get a break either. Nor do I believe the same crap from McCain. Also, I don't particularly want one. I am happy to pay taxes if it is spent right. Some serious bills are coming due for this country. I will pay, but why should I get a break. Why should Obama be president when he promises more hand outs and says he will do nothing to cut spending. Nothing in his plan is out of bounds.

We need to cut the Government, we need to cut spending, we need to cut entitlements. We need to balance the budget and pay down the deficit. We need to pay our bills, and the frivilous stuff will have to wait till we can afford it. But Obama's plan is to increase government spending, increase hand outs, no definite plan to cut spending, and he will pay for it all by taxing the rich more. Nothing but politician election time promises. Same game as usual. Same $hit, different person.

[AZXD]

Originally Posted by Powerman

No, I'm not in that tax bracket. But I also don't believe I will get a break either. Nor do I believe the same crap from McCain. Also, I don't particularly want one. I am happy to pay taxes if it is spent right. Some serious bills are coming due for this country. I will pay, but why should I get a break. Why should Obama be president when he promises more hand outs and says he will do nothing to cut spending. Nothing in his plan is out of bounds.

We need to cut the Government, we need to cut spending, we need to cut entitlements. We need to balance the budget and pay down the deficit. We need to pay our bills, and the frivilous stuff will have to wait till we can afford it. But Obama's plan is to increase government spending, increase hand outs, no definite plan to cut spending, and he will pay for it all by taxing the rich more. Nothing but politician election time promises. Same game as usual. Same $hit, different person.

Isn't it great that votes can be so easily bought

[KingWulfgar]

Originally Posted by Etta Place

It's my impression that Obama believes that supply side economics has not worked because the middle class has seen wages stagnating and their standard of living squeezed. We have seen economic growth, but the benefits have accrued disproportionately to those at the top. And, he thinks tax policy has greatly contributed to this inequality.

I think what Obama means to do is give tax cuts to middle class people like me to attempt to balance out this situation. I think he means to rescue the economy first and then once it's stabilized he expects people to pull their load. This is my opinion based on what I have heard Obama say.

They discussed this inequality issue on Bill Maher's show the other night.

Therein lies the crux of the problem. Obama (and, apparently, you) believe that economic growth should affect everyone equally. Whether they're at the bottom of the ladder or the top. Whether they've contributed or not. You obviously do not realize that that is one of the tenets of communism.

Economic growth will always disproportionately benefit the people who took the risks, worked the hardest, and put the most money into the system to begin with in the form of investments. The poor, single mom on welfare doesn't get any of that benefit and shouldn't (other than the natural benefit of innovation and lowered costs of production lowering prices in a perfect world).

The tax system is already progressive (although, there is an interesting argument that when taken as a whole--i.e. not just the income tax--the tax system is actually regressive). Making it more so and putting more of a burden on the few individuals that are the ones that spur economic growth is a bad policy. There is no arguing with the fact that if the top employers and producers in the economy are saddled with a heavier tax burden, they will have less money to invest and employ people. It's common sense, but most people just hear, "He's going to tax me less and tax those rich people more. That won't affect me!" Sadly, those sheeple are very very wrong and will be the loudest ones screeching when their jobs fizzle up and float away thanks to the tax that couldn't possibly affect them.

Where this whole system breaks down is the phony "wealth" that was created over the past 10 years by the housing bubble, easy credit, and wily investors milking the system. Based on Obama's outspoken support for the billionaire bailout plan and his vote for it, I don't see him changing anything to do with that part of the equation.

Honestly, I don't know why I bother, but maybe someday some of this will get through to you. You claim to have supported Ron Paul and his ideals. Why don't you do yourself a favor? Buy his book "The Revolution: A Manifesto" and READ IT! It's only like $12 on Amazon.com. If you can't be bothered to read his book and keep spouting stuff that is completely opposite of what he says, you just make yourself look foolish when you continue to insist you support his beliefs.

[AZXD]

Originally Posted by KingWulfgar

You claim to have supported Ron Paul and his ideals. Why don't you do yourself a favor? Buy his book "The Revolution: A Manifesto" and READ IT! It's only like $12 on Amazon.com.

That's some very good advice Etta ... You should read his book.

ETA: Here's a link - Amazon.com: The Revolution: A Manifesto: Ron Paul: Books

[ForTehNguyen]

i read that book, it was amazing