I hope gas prices hit 6 dollars a gallon. Burn SUVs, Burn :)

[lobster_roboto]

Originally Posted by XDConvert9mm

Sorry to jump over things LR, this is something I really dont know what the VO part of you're post means. Is this Methane? I was a little focused before.

waste-VO

waste vegetable oil...

Basically when you fry stuff with veggie oil the crap that remains...

You can buy conversion kits for a lot of different vehicles out right now..

but nothing from the big manufacturers...

I've always wondered about it.

And wouldn't mind getting some opinions on it.


For the sake of conversation.

[gsh341]

Originally Posted by Magicite

Here's what has happened.

I said I hope gas goes higher so that lifestyles will change and we'll find alternatives.

You guys said. There are no alternatives. Keep burning oil till the world explodes or my kids hate me.

I said that's crazy and you have to get your head out of the sand and start making changes now.

You said no.

I think we've found where we are.

Yeah. We're at the place where you tell us the alternative to oil.

I also never said anything about farm or industrial uses of oil. You for some odd reason mentioned that. I honestly don't even know what that is about. I like food. If you can't make it with electric engines that's fine. I still need food. I don't need people using trucks that get 9 miles to the gallon driving to the grocery store. Somewhere the lines got crossed.

You mentioned that 58 million people in the US are rural and the other 242 million people aren't. This implies that the solution is to be found in the cities and that people in the rural areas are not worth considering. After all, who cares if gas hits $6 per gallon if you're biking to work or taking the bus?

The farmers and those other rural people do.

I also think it's crazy that you guys constantly spout drill this and that. I think you still have not realized that America is only getting bigger. China is only getting bigger. Demand will keep going up. Further oil exploration will only result in further dependence.

Well, if we could stabilize the world population (which would be nice, but is totally impossible) oil wouldn't be to much of a problem.

Unless it's $6 per gallon.

Before you suggest that gas should be $6 per gallon, you may want to have a viable alternative. Until one is invented, we need more oil.

[lobster_roboto]

also..

according to the internet...

if we used all 11 billion liters of waste-VO that we currently produce it would offset only 1-3% of our oil dependence.

Mainly because so much of that oil dependence comes from plastics.
Waste-VO can't currently be used to make plastics.

[XDConvert9mm]

Originally Posted by Magicite

I never proposed a solution. I offered technology trends. I pointed out that higher gas prices push us towards independence. I used the prius as an example. I also used horrible suv sales as an example.

My point was that higher prices lead to less dependence. You guys never defeated that point in ANY way. You merely said babies won't get diapers and poor people don't get fruit.

Then you started pressing me for solutions after not being able to defeat my original point which is high gas prices lead to oil independence.

Who's the real troll?

I've always been a big fan of not beyotching without bringing a solution. Tell us, specifically, what your answer is and we can talk further. After all, you brought this thread up for your amusement, right?

[Magicite]

Originally Posted by Powerman

I'm having a real hard time following you. Did you eat paint as a kid?

Let's get something straight. We are not dependent on oil. We are dependent on energy. So you don't want to be dependent on oil. Good for you. Stop using it.

Whatever grand alternative you think is worthy, is whatever energy source we will be dependent on next. If bio deisel was to magically repalce petroleum over night, do you not think we will be dependent and at the supplier's mercy just as so many claim today? Or do you think biodeisel will just flow for free out of fields?

Where do you think electricity comes from? Do you have any idea the generation capacity that would be needed to run our transportation? What impact do you think that would have on the trucking industry? Could you imagine the parking lot space needed for the hours it would take to charge up trucks every 200 miles. Do you even think about this????

Why exactly do you think we need to be free of oil?

It's like dealing with a kid.

I never proposed a solution.

I know you like oil.

I merely pointed out that the higher gas is, the more incentive we have to find an alternative. Do you actually have a rebuttal to this point?

[Magicite]

Originally Posted by lobster_roboto

waste-VO

waste vegetable oil...

Basically when you fry stuff with veggie oil the crap that remains...

You can buy conversion kits for a lot of different vehicles out right now..

but nothing from the big manufacturers...

I've always wondered about it.

And wouldn't mind getting some opinions on it.


For the sake of conversation.

Make your own biodiesel: Journey to Forever

Read that and then look up appleseed processor. Running straight WVO requires a vehicle conversion. Converting it to biodiesel requires a processor. Biodiesel can run in any diesel vehicle without conversion.

[gsh341]

Originally Posted by Magicite

I never proposed a solution. I offered technology trends. I pointed out that higher gas prices push us towards independence. I used the prius as an example. I also used horrible suv sales as an example.

My point was that higher prices lead to less dependence. You guys never defeated that point in ANY way. You merely said babies won't get diapers and poor people don't get fruit.

Then you started pressing me for solutions after not being able to defeat my original point which is high gas prices lead to oil independence.

Who's the real troll?

Without a viable alternative to oil, there is no independence, just a horrible screeching as our economy comes to an abrupt halt. At that point we won't need oil (those of us that are still alive after the freezing winters and starvation) because we'll all be riding horses again just like in the 1800's. That's the last time no one needed oil.

When you say that high gas prices will induce independence from oil without a viable alternative in place is just like saying high food prices will lead to independence from food, without explaining how people will not starve.

By the way, the population of the US in 1850 was 23 million.

[afmo]

Originally Posted by Magicite

It's like dealing with a kid.

I never proposed a solution.

I know you like oil.

I merely pointed out that the higher gas is, the more incentive we have to find an alternative. Do you actually have a rebuttal to this point?

So the best you've got is to support a position that will create a national crisis, without any idea of how to fix the problem? okie dokie then.

[Powerman]

Originally Posted by Magicite

It's like dealing with a kid.

I never proposed a solution.

I know you like oil.

I merely pointed out that the higher gas is, the more incentive we have to find an alternative. Do you actually have a rebuttal to this point?

You complain about a problem, yet offer no solution. Do you live near power lines?

I don't like oil. I like my standard of living. I like the freedom that standard gives me. I like the fact that I was born into the greatest nation on Earth. That way of life has been given to us by our superior use of energy. We were blessed with a ton of oil and a f*** ton of coal, and it put us on top.

I will say it again, we do not depend on oil, we depend on energy. You give me a energy source that is as energy dense, as convinent, as readily available, and at least for the time being, as plentiful as oil is, and as cheap as that is considering what you get for it, and I will gladly switch.

Light sweet crude is dwindling, and yes you are correct. Oil is finite. Oil shale and tar sand is still plenty viable. You give me a superior alternative to oil, and I will use it. Period.

By the way, do you have any idea how many lumps of coal you have added to the atmosphere with this worthless thread. I sugest you reduce your carbon footprint if you are so concerned. I love mine just the way it is.

[XDConvert9mm]

Originally Posted by afmo

So the best you've got is to support a position that will create a national crisis, without any idea of how to fix the problem? okie dokie then.