Liberal environmentalists are a shrill, intrusive bunch

[AZXD]

Originally Posted by amishclark

there certainly are things that improve quality of life that should not be eliminated...your example of a car vs. a horse and buggy is a good one! power tools are good as well. but these are all tools used for something necessary (hopefully). my contention is that most lawn care is not necessary...dave is required to plant grass to stop erosion? well what stopped it before the grass? and wouldn't that requirement be just as burdensome? now he has to have a power mower, which costs money, and put gas in it, which costs more money. i'm surprised you aren't more upset about the TVA (don't know what that is...) mandating actions...the TVA must be a bunch of liberal communists!

i care about an overweight society because i believe that an obese population raises the cost of health care and health insurance. i don't see why that wouldn't bother you as well...your neighbor may be able to afford one or both, but there are externalities to consider. is he over the weight limit for a hospital bed? too fat for the cat scan machine? too wide for a standard wheelchair? then the hospital needs to upgrade, which means everyone will pay in the end. so it's not really a "me, me, me" mentality...

my grandparents are gone, but i would have happily carted their gas-powered mower off and replaced it with a push mower, because i would mow their lawn! same goes for my parents...

More moral highground.
You are truly unique and one sided in your view to the point of loosing rational thought within your argument.

"dave is required to plant grass to stop erosion? well what stopped it before the grass?"

What do you think was there before the house ?? Probably ... Grass!

Thus your argument would have been better if you had stated that the house should have never been built.

I will agree that most lawn care is not necessary, but it is the intrusive nature of the me, me, me crowd that causes all the problems. They want their neighborhoods to look nice, and I can't blame them. But so many go overboard that you can't seem to win. Local ordinances will force this upon many people even if they can show scientific data of how longer grass helps purify the air of pollutants.

Tools ... Necessary for one, a luxury for another. Would you deny a wheelchair bound person the use of electricity ??

Overweight people,
Didn't I say it's none of my concern as long as they are not an economic burden to society ??

Guess what I'm overweight, but I'm not obese, which is what you seem to be envisioning as you describe such people .... So persecute me for another crime against society. Judge me as a bad person. I smoke and I'm overweight. I own guns so I must be crazy
Your moral highground is a sign of your character.

So go ahead and judge society ... Why did Hitler kill the Jews ??

[AZXD]

Originally Posted by trik396

A cigarette butt has some paper, cotton and tobacco. All natural biodegradable things that won't harm anyone as long as they don't get flicked into another car or pickup trucks bed. What pisses me off is the guy dragging his muffler and you know it's gonna fly off at any second. Or a bumper held on by tie wire. Or a car that's exhaust is as blue as the sky. Dangerous crap like that.

This thread is getting stupid and I'm opting out.

See ya...

You sir, are a smart man.

I'm out as well.
There is no sense in being judged from across the country via the Internet.

[Brickboy240]

It does seem a bit silly, that someone that is trying to make an environmental statement (because if you do the math...the hybrid does not start svaing you money until it hits about 100k miles) is lighting dead leaves and puffing the smoke into the clean air.

I also love the smokers that drink diet Cokes or eat fat free foods. Give me a break! You're smoking..why do you care about fatty foods? Worrying about one part of ones health while totally disregarding the other seems really silly. But....for the life of me...I don't get the smoking thing and with all we know about all the adverse effects of smoking, I am shocked that people still pick up and do this habit today.

(however, I don't want it outlawed and you should have the right to destroy your health if it pleases you...puff away...just don't do it where I have to smell it...yuck!)

On the enviroment and what we drive issue...I have a great story about those leftists that seem overly concearned about telling others what they should drive.

I was filling up my daily driver the other day (a 1991 Volvo 240...in very good condition) when a guy in a Corolla with way too many left leaning bumper stickers, pulled up next to me and started pumping gas. For some reason, some think that if you drive a Volvo, you too are a leftist, so this guy starts saying to me how those drivers (he points to a Suburrban and F250 filling up on the next aisle) are causing the high gas prices. He goes on about how we should ban those vehicles and that he hopes that high gas prices force people out of those vehicles.

Well, I let him finish his rant, then proceeded to tell him my other vehicle is a V8 Crew Cab 4wd Tunrda...and that it was not anyone elses business what we drive. I also asked him if he knew how many miles the Suburban and F250 owers drove. What if they only drove these behemoths about 5000 miles a year and you drove your Corolla 12,000 miles a year?

The guy just rolled his eys and got back in his car and took off. Didn't answer my questions at all.

What do we learn from these exchanges?

First, don't assume that if someone drives a certain type of car, they are of a certain political persuasion.

Second, don't make assumptions about those that drive inefficent vehicles, because there might be a chance that they don't drive them all that often. I know I only commute 1-2 days a week in the Tundra...but if you make false assumptions...you would be dead wrong about my driving habits.

Third, these high fuel prices are certainly bringing out the worst in some people. It brings about deep seated hatred and makes some beleive in false predictions and wrong impressions about the people around them. Don't fall for this trap.

If one refuses to do the research and figure out WHOM it is they are to truly be angry about when it comes to high gas prices...it is unfair to lash out at others around you that you don't even know.

Further proof to me that the "open-minded left" is anything but fair or open minded.

- brickboy240

[Brickboy240]

One more thing...

I'd like to know the difference in the energy spent and resources used to create a new Corolla or Prius, versus the pollution put out by a well maintained used car (like my 2500 dollar used 240 Volvo).

You never see comparisons but I wonder if less environmental impact might come from buying and driving used cars, than the energy spent creating so many new ones.

We should also factor in the costs of the junkyard/landfill, disposal or recycling of whatever parts are taken from older cars we take off the road.

It might pan out that building all these supposeldly cleaner burning new cars TAKES more resources than the pollution put out by a well kept used car that stays on the road and out of the junkyard or landfill.

Agian...what MIGHT sound better (the Prius) might prove to be wasteful of more energy than the used car.

I don't know....but I'd love to see research done, if we are serious about CONSERVING energy. We might be expending more than we save...eh?

Maybe driving a well maintained used car is more "green" than buying a new fuel efficient car? Who knows?

- brickboy240

[amishclark]

^^^ i agree 100%, but most automakers won't...and they're a powerful group

[AZXD]

Back in just for this.
Without a study the consumer can't make an informed decision. With a proper study ... The automaker might just become a seller of use parts.
They are only as powerful as the public allows.

Perhaps the environmental groups SHOULD back an analysis, and stop judging people based on the opinions of government reports and the powerful groups that lobby government.

[JeffXD]

It takes me 45 minutes to mow my lot with my gasoline mower, I sure as hell aint using a mower sans engine.

Part of that 45 minutes is the grass easement (alley) that is city property, but us homeowners have to maintain it. Bastards!!!

Does it have to be mowed? To a certain extent yes. There are city ordinances about high grass. Don't mow it, and the city will mow it for you. Then send you a bill. Tall grass also invites rodents and other critters that are not desireable around the house.

For what its worth, in the 5 years we have been here I have yet to put a lick of fertilizer on my yard. Typically I don't water my yard on my day unless we are in a pattern of NO rain, then I water enough to keep it alive. I do use my mister irrigation on my vegetable garden every day though. After all, I do live in Texas on old prairie land. St Augustine is NOT native to my area, and to try to keep it green during our summers is retarded.

[FLSTFI Dave]

Originally Posted by amishclark

my contention is that most lawn care is not necessary...dave is required to plant grass to stop erosion? well what stopped it before the grass? and wouldn't that requirement be just as burdensome? now he has to have a power mower, which costs money, and put gas in it, which costs more money. i'm surprised you aren't more upset about the TVA (don't know what that is...) mandating actions...the TVA must be a bunch of liberal communists!

...

TVA = Tennessee Valley Authority

I do not have an HOA where I live, I specificly chose an area where I would not. TVA does have a responsibility to control the water and water quality for Everyones use. Same goes with the shore line.

First you must excavate to put in a drain field and spetic system. What you you propose, weeds or dirt to cover it when your done?

Now you have a home, with 350 feet between youre house and the lake what would you put there? Sure there are 10 trees left between the house and the lake, but what else to protect from errosion? Remember you want youre friends children and your grand kids to be able to play in the lake and between the house and the lake.

Wild grass is one of the things natural to the area, and I have some of that.

You know what else is in wild grass? Lots of seed ticks and deer ticks. Do you want that where your kids play or your grand kids play.

I have Deer in my yard every day. I also often get Fox in my yard. I see turkeys a few times a year. I also see wood chucks and many other smaller animals, and plenty of Snakes.

What would you do to make sure the kids were not near snakes?

By the way, I do not use well or city water for my lawn, I use lake water.

[Sirius1963]

Originally Posted by amishclark

i can only assume that said driver had a vanity license plate or bumper sticker indicating their political alignment? or are priusi (priuses? hmmm...) only sold to and bought by liberals? can liberals not smoke? i'm confused...

I think the point here was the incredible impact growing tobacco and making/shipping cigs has on the enviroment.

• Here's some frightening information in relation to what we're doing to the planet, mostly provided by the Health Department of Western Australia.
• Nearly 600 million trees of forest are destroyed each year to provide wood to dry tobacco.
• in Tanzania, an estimated 65 pounds of wood is needed to dry a pound of tobacco
• In countries where wood isn't used, LPG, coal or oil is used for drying
• by 2010, 87 percent of the world’s tobacco will be grown in the developing world.
• A modern cigarette manufacturing machine can use up to 3.7 miles of paper an hour
• Tobacco plants use more nutrients than many other crops, degrading the soil.
• Vast quantities of pesticides, fertilizer and herbicides are used on tobacco crops. Some crops requires over a dozen applications of pesticides during the three-month growing period.

from Tobacco's environmental impact
(it was the first one I could find)

So you drive your prius to save a gallon of gas, and destroy acres of trees to get your tobacco fix.

[amishclark]

^^^ETA: i doubt yy was making the point in that context, but i couldn't agree more when you put it like that...

so perhaps the accepted design and construction philosophy for housing needs to change to avoid necessitating the introduction of a non-native species that requires such a high level of care (relative, of course, to no care)? i'm no engineer, and i'm no construction specialist, so i don't have the answers...but digging to put in a septic tank (which i agree is necessary) and then covering it with dirt and grass (which i view as a bandaid for poor design) can't be the optimal solution!

i will say that many generations before mine and yours have survived the seed and deer ticks, the critters, and the snakes in tall grass. why can't ours? again, "me, me, me" here, but your argument is born out of luxury, imho. no offense intended...

i'm sure you'll be hard-pressed to accept a recommendation for reading from a "self-interested environmental liberal" such as myself, but "cradle to cradle" is an excellent book about a paradigm shift in design philosophy as a whole that i would like to see happen. it discusses intelligent product and process design using appropriate materials for the life-cycle of a given product. it lays out an end-to-end philosophy for material selection and handling. most importantly, it shows how businesses can be both profitable and beneficial to surrounding environments...highly recommend it!