Libs think we don't deserve to celebrate the 4th of July

[rupert]

Good Post D!

[dincote]

Here is an OPEN FREE AIRPLANE RIDE to any country, of your preference.

yes I will pay first class ticket to anyone who dislike this country soooo much to any where they want to go, but you must surrender your citizenship and bow to never to return here.

anytime.


Jose

[yeahYeah]

I'm speechless BB. I expect this kind of thing from YeahYeah who has the time and inclination to post over 30 times a day and starts countless threads with only one intention....to provoke more dissent and to label (with no explanation) everyone with whom he disagrees.

First off, you seem obsssed with this constant harping about "socialists" ...tell my (for example) why "free trade" so conveniently stops with the pharmaceutical companies? Who owns the pharmacueticals anyway? Oh yeah....I have it backward...it's they who seem to own the American government. Along with big tabacco, etc......whichever lobbyists have the most money to throw around call the shots. And it's more than obvious who's pulling whose strings in DC....as they say "FOLLOW THE MONEY".

As for what the founding fathers were like....interesting observations. Where you around to interview any of them? Sit with them over a few pints?

Whatever....I know when I've hit a brick wall (no pun intended) and I won't be arguing politics with you anymore. I'm just too dismayed to have lost one of the seemingly open minded, issue by issue guys to the black and white crowd. Sad to see you go BB.....Truly!

It boggles my mind that you can say that anyone who expresses dissent with American policy "hates America".....What about our DUTY to express dissent? What about Teddy Roosevelt's comments on the subject?


My grandparents came through Ellis Island in the very first years of the 20th century. my grandfathers both went to enlist as 'dough-boys' during WWIl - Served with tens of thousands of others with thick Eastern European accents.

My Dad and his brother enlisted right after the attack on Pearl Harbor

....dad was the head air to air gunnery instructor for the entire US Army Air Corps.

I served in a war I had reservations about....politically. But no reservations about my duty to my country or my comrades.

My son went to the MEPS center when he was only in 11th grade to sign up early during the days following 9/11. On July 1, 2003, he was inducted,

The flags my family flies on the Fourth, and on Memorial day were not "picked up' like yeahyeah told us he proudly did despite his HOA rules....wow....really putting it all on the line for his country (Flag most likely Chinese made and sold at Walmart),

The flags my family displays on July 4 and Memorial Day were presented at the funerals of my grandparents and my dad and uncle by the Dept. of Veterans Affairs. They'll be there when i die, and in the very distant future when my son dies (and in all likelihood when our unborn heirs die as well0..

I don't agree with all of what was said in the essay about not celebrating the Fourth this year, but i did not disagree with all of it either.


On plenty of occasions on XDTalk, I have been told that I myself am an 'America Hater".....I don't care what people say. I never have. I judge people by what they do. Talk is very cheap.

I (like everyone in my family....including my mother) served our country. Those who tell me that I should leave have done exactly what to give them the right to tell me to what I should do? And to tell me to LEAVE!!!!

I read YeahYeah's typically innaccurate rant about Kerry and how he "hung with Fonda' (never happened). And about how he thew his medal away (also never happened AFAIK...).

I never threw a medal OR a ribbon away, but I'd be happy to shove my Purple Heart up the a$$ of a guy like YeahYeah.

Talk about being "sick of hearing" - I'm truly sick of hearing who is and who is not a "patriotic American'..

peace,
D.

Delija - do you think your "better" then me or more "superior" to me because of your family history? you don't know me, but our family historys are very similar infact, a little too similar, so before you go into your pontificating, have some background about the person or persons you are trying to one up. I've had one or more family members in every conflict going back to WW1 all the way to this very second, but i am not going to compare and continue to justify the way that i feel and get people to agree with me - like you do.

[AZXD]

I've averaged 48 posts a day .... What of it ??
Socialism is a threat to individualism, don't you think ??

Founding fathers! I really doubt you were there either. Were you ??

Blah Blah Blah ... Family history.
My Dad was a CO ... Am I less of an American because of this ??

My Flag was bought at Costco and about the only thing I am sure of is the label says it was made in America. Am I less American because no one in my family died in service, and thus no flags have been presented ??

I've never called you anti-American, but have pointed out you admittance of being in favor of gun restrictions ... So perhaps the accusation of being unAmerican has it's place. What do you think ??

Being sick and tired of accusations about being unAmerican remind me of someone who is on their 4th/5th ... I've even been told their 6th suspension ... IMO, that individual seems to be the one who started all this Anti-American crap.

Yea, good post D
You have pretty much told us how you are better than anyone else who does not have a family lineage of two or three generations of service. You coupled that with a few insults, and made unjust implications.
But it's a good post, you put someone in their place and made yourself sound all high and mighty in the process.

I'm just glad you didn't specifically draw me into your Patriotically Elite view.
No need to reply, you're probably much to busy for those of us who are unable/unwilling to spout off our family lineage and join your club.

FWIW, don't think of this as an insult against your family or their service. You brought family into this and used it as a statement. I thank you and them for their service. But did it help your position ??

Originally Posted by Delija

I'm speechless
Talk about being "sick of hearing" - I'm truly sick of hearing who is and who is not a "patriotic American'..

peace,
D.

[Palmguy]

Originally Posted by Delija

I'm speechless

[Delija]

Originally Posted by AZXD

I've averaged 48 posts a day .... What of it ??
Socialism is a threat to individualism, don't you think ??-

No problem with your posts at all....not the frequency and not the content. You obviously feel strongly about Obama, you give your reasons, you make it clear enough for anyone to realize these are your opinions.

Have I ever tried to discredit you or your opinions? I don't think I ever did....because I don't recall ever reading anything I found objectionable. . (I do find the "piling on" a bit redundant, as I've said before, but while I may think it's sort of beating a dead horse - and "preaching to the choir", I have zero issues with it).

Originally Posted by AZXD

Founding fathers! I really doubt you were there either. Were you ??

Obviously not....which was my point to Brickboy. None of us can read minds....reading minds of guys that have been dead for a few hundred years is even a greater trick. I responded as I did to Brickboy because I have always admired his ability to reason and to be open minded and I felt "let down' that he's seeming (IMO) to be swinging farther away from the "issue by issue" guy I considered him and more towards an extreme view. I hope I'm wrong and was hoping BB would tell me I am wrong.

Originally Posted by AZXD

Blah Blah Blah ... Family history.
My Dad was a CO ... Am I less of an American because of this ??

Obviously I failed to get my point across and according to you I didn't even approach it from a reasonable angle. .

My point was I was just sickened by YeahYeah's incessant and (to me) ridiculous rants about how anyone with whom he disagrees is not a "patriotic American".....

Originally Posted by AZXD

My Flag was bought at Costco and about the only thing I am sure of is the label says it was made in America. Am I less American because no one in my family died in service, and thus no flags have been presented ??

Made in America? Good enough for me.
As for the "dying in service"....I never made an allusion to that. Veteran Affairs brings flags to the funerals of every veteran....my dad served in WWII, but died in 1999. That's when the flag was given to my mom. Had nothing to do with dying "in service".

Originally Posted by AZXD

I've never called you anti-American, but have pointed out you admittance of being in favor of gun restrictions ... So perhaps the accusation of being unAmerican has it's place. What do you think ??-

Correct...I have said that I am in favor of certain reasonable 'gun restrictions" ...just as the NRA is, I'll be happy to discuss that with you anytime in detail. This makes me 'unAmerican'?



[quote=AZXD;1186075]Being sick and tired of accusations about being unAmerican remind me of someone who is on their 4th/5th ... I've even been told their 6th suspension ... IMO, that individual seems to be the one who started all this Anti-American crap.[quote]
So you are saying you agree with me?
I used to laugh at the guys that would carry signs in the 60s..."America...Love it or Leave It"....
What about loving it enough to make it better? What about loving it enough to do more than carry a sign but to work from within the system as so many did? Was the Vietnam war a mistake? You tell me; 50K dead American soldiers, ...in the end they are now (while still officially a "communist country"), one of the nations we do a huge amount of commerce with. Look at China right now for the most glaring example..

Originally Posted by AZXD

Yea, good post D
You have pretty much told us how you are better than anyone else who does not have a family lineage of two or three generations of service. You coupled that with a few insults, and made unjust implications.
But it's a good post, you put someone in their place and made yourself sound all high and mighty in the process.

Sorry it came across that way. My only intent was to try and shut Yeahyeah and his "hate America? Leave America' nonsense.

I mentioned my family's military service NOT to try and say we (or I) am "BETTER" than anyone else. But yes, better than to be told "You don't like the way things are then LEAVE".

But do I think it's perfect? No. Do I think in some ways it's gotten worse in the last 8 or so years under the Bush administration? YES, DEFINITELY....which was what the guy that wrote the editorial about not celebrating the Fourth of July said.

Did I agree with him on not celebrating our nation's birth? Not at all.

Did I agree with some of the points he made? Yes. And I disagreed with others.

But no way did I see him as an "America Hater" -

So I said I'm sick of hearing that mantra from the "black and white' extremists who tell us (in the 2008 version) - "America, Love it or Leave IT"..

I invoked the allusion to what Theodore Roosevelt said of the same thing (criticising the govt. when appropriate....only he was much more specific....if you don't know the quote, I'll post it for you, but I have the feeling you do).




IMO, the people who call other Americans "haters" for expressing dissent, have no idea what America is really about.

And as far as yeahyeah.....he can think all the idiotic things he wishes. His right. But when he posts outright BS, I think it's only fair that he gets called on it. "Kerry hung with Fonda"...LOL.....Yeah, and I had dinner with Jabba the Hut last week.

Truth seems to have no place in his nonstop rants. If he wants to post 10000 times a day, fine. But a little accuracy would go a long way.

.

Originally Posted by AZXD

I'm just glad you didn't specifically draw me into your Patriotically Elite view.
No need to reply, you're probably much to busy for those of us who are unable/unwilling to spout off our family lineage and join your club.

FWIW, don't think of this as an insult against your family or their service. You brought family into this and used it as a statement. I thank you and them for their service. But did it help your position ??

I don't see why you would even think I would have 'drawn you into" any of it. I'm sorry you saw it as an 'Elite View'....it was nothing more than venting how I felt after serving my country and then being told I was not a 'true American", and i should leave (If those exact words were not said, i certainly felt they were implied).

peace,
D.

[AZXD]

That's why I like you D

You're a stand up guy and you express yourself, and your meaning fairly well. This just seemed a little to condescending, so I called you on it to see just how you would clarify things.

Concerning "the people who call other Americans "haters" for expressing dissent, have no idea what America is really about" ..... Dude, it's hard to argue with something you agree with.

Concerning your father and the Flag ... I read to much into your words .... I am sorry for your family's loss and if he was anything like you seem to be ... He was someone I would have liked to meet.



FWIW ..... Obama sucks, and if you ever figure out how to read the minds of dead people/founding fathers ... PM me

Originally Posted by Delija

SNIP

peace,
D.

[Delija]

Originally Posted by AZXD

FWIW ..... Obama sucks, and if you ever figure out how to read the minds of dead people/founding fathers ... PM me

I never said Obama did not suck. In fact I did say several times that as of now I still intend to vote for McCain (or against Obama...pick one).

All I ever said in 'defense" of Obama (if that's even an appropriate word to use), is I know so little about him that I'm willing to hear what he has to say during the debates...which I think should be very interesting.

Funny thing is while everyone here seems to express their feelings that Obama is a 'socialist/communist/leftist, I'd say from what little I know I tend to be more concerned with his fascist tendendencies (Not fascist as in Hitler and Mussolini, but in his seeming comfort with the idea that businesses are not responsible for their actions....that people die, but industry never does so they get to call the shots (longevity gives a lot of power). Basically I see him as about the most typical kind of politician. "Change"? I call BS on that. At least for now. i don't see him as an agent of change at all, more an agent of the status quo....sort of a Clinton type Democrat (hopefully with less psychoses).

As for McCain, I don't see him as anyone special in any way. But he may be better than Obama...do I really feel strongly about the guy? No, I can't. He seems more an "appeaser' than any other politician. In some ways that's good....being able to work across party lines. (Hillary Clinton was pretty much the same IMO).

But did I think that people like yeahyeah telling us that Clark was a POS and McCain a war hero was acceptable? As I said, a little accuracy goes a very long way. It's obvious that this guy (and others) know NOTHING about Clark's service record at all. It's a joke what they think - or what they think they know. Anyone can Google Clark and see what he accomplished. Things like leading his command to victory while having four bullets in him seems kind of impressive to me. Being a Rhodes scholar seems a bit more impressive to me than graduating from Annapolis ahead of 5 other cadets and behind 495 others. Being commander of NATO forces (or being ANY General) certainly doesn't come easily. Getting shot down in a fighter jet and being a POW - yes, I give McCain plenty of credit for what he endured. But he was a victim of circumstances, not an achiever like Clark. (And on and on and on.....I just can't seem to get past YeahYeah telling us how Kerry "hung with Fonda"....it cemented my belief that he has no interest in the truth, and I'm sorry I got so bent out of shape about his ridiculous assertions, but sometimes too much is just too much. I'll try to ignore his lies and distortions and limit my exchanges to those who can and do actually think.



LOl

Peace,
D.

[AZXD]

Sorry man ... I should have chosen different words. I did not mean to imply that you said anything about Obama, and I sure didn't think you were defending him.

I totally agree with learning about the candidates!!!
As for the labels ... socialist/communist/leftist/fascist ... He seems to be a conglomeration of many labels .... Most of them are reasons I feel he is a bad choice for America.

McCain also has labels, but they are not expressed (by me) with the same level of commitment. I guess it's part of that lesser evil decision process we seem to perpetually deal with during a Presidential election, when the choices are not very good.

As for the rest ... It's kind of a shame we don't have more people like General Clark stepping up to the plate. I'm not sure how he would be as a President .... But from a leadership standpoint, I can't think of anyone more qualified than a service man/woman who has be in charge of others tasks, lives, the whole ... You know what I mean ... I hope! ... Military leadership is hard to beat ... It instills many desirable qualities!!!

So back to McCain, Obama, Clinton ... Darn near all of them .... IMO they SUCK for various reasons. Some are the same reasons, and some are very different. But of these three Obama scares me the most. Yea, he's a typical politician ... But his experience level and ability to rally what I refer to as blind followers ... That's just scary.

ETA:
Concerning frustrations and other words to describe what someone might state as fact, intentional distortions etcetera .... Yea, it can be frustrating .... Myself, I do my own research, ignore the stupid stuff, call out the stupid stuff and never take anything seriously or personal unless it bothers me, or I just feel like making a point of something.

Be cool!!

Originally Posted by Delija

I never said Obama did not suck. In fact I did say several times that as of now I still intend to vote for McCain (or against Obama...pick one).

All I ever said in 'defense" of Obama (if that's even an appropriate word to use), is I know so little about him that I'm willing to hear what he has to say during the debates...which I think should be very interesting.

Funny thing is while everyone here seems to express their feelings that Obama is a 'socialist/communist/leftist, I'd say from what little I know I tend to be more concerned with his fascist tendendencies (Not fascist as in Hitler and Mussolini, but in his seeming comfort with the idea that businesses are not responsible for their actions....that people die, but industry never does so they get to call the shots (longevity gives a lot of power). Basically I see him as about the most typical kind of politician. "Change"? I call BS on that. At least for now. i don't see him as an agent of change at all, more an agent of the status quo....sort of a Clinton type Democrat (hopefully with less psychoses).

As for McCain, I don't see him as anyone special in any way. But he may be better than Obama...do I really feel strongly about the guy? No, I can't. He seems more an "appeaser' than any other politician. In some ways that's good....being able to work across party lines. (Hillary Clinton was pretty much the same IMO).

But did I think that people like yeahyeah telling us that Clark was a POS and McCain a war hero was acceptable? As I said, a little accuracy goes a very long way. It's obvious that this guy (and others) know NOTHING about Clark's service record at all. It's a joke what they think - or what they think they know. Anyone can Google Clark and see what he accomplished. Things like leading his command to victory while having four bullets in him seems kind of impressive to me. Being a Rhodes scholar seems a bit more impressive to me than graduating from Annapolis ahead of 5 other cadets and behind 495 others. Being commander of NATO forces (or being ANY General) certainly doesn't come easily. Getting shot down in a fighter jet and being a POW - yes, I give McCain plenty of credit for what he endured. But he was a victim of circumstances, not an achiever like Clark. (And on and on and on.....I just can't seem to get past YeahYeah telling us how Kerry "hung with Fonda"....it cemented my belief that he has no interest in the truth, and I'm sorry I got so bent out of shape about his ridiculous assertions, but sometimes too much is just too much. I'll try to ignore his lies and distortions and limit my exchanges to those who can and do actually think.



LOl

Peace,
D.

[Brickboy240]

I am just sick of the complainers...you know the ones...they only criticize America. How can they live in a place they find so disgusting?

They have the right to complain...I don't want to deny them this, but if they were TRULY serious about being fed up...they'd strap on a pair and leave. Millions of people all over the world leave countries they live in, because they're fed up. This country is no different.

They have the right to complain.....but I also have the right to think they're just running their mouths to hear them run and have grown unappreciative of this country.

They also would not last 5 minutes in a socialist country and should maybe learn to appreciate this place a little more, instead of always badmouthing it.

Am I to beleive that just because someone disagrees with Abu Ghraib or Gitmo or Iraq...they are unable to find anyhting else to be thankful for on July 4th? If so..well...thats really sad. With all its warts, there is plenty to still celebrate and be thankful for.

There is PLENTY that I find wrong with in our govt. and country, but I don't go around telling others that on July 4th..we need to tone it down or be down in the dumps. Give me a break!

Sorry...I am just fed up with the "glass is half empty" people. Rarely, do they offer much to society or solve any real problems...jsut stand around and complain and blame others. I feel sorry for those with this type of outlook and honestly don't know how they muster up enough energy to get out of bed in the morning.

- Brickboy240