Drilling For Answers on Obama's Claims

[AZXD]

If that occurs ... Then Mexico's population can deal with Mexico's problem.

What if we stopped feeding the world ???
Don't think it won't happen ... Consider what your food costs will be this time next year. The cost will be the combined effect of the flooding that is occurring across the midwest and the rising transportation costs associated with producing, cultivating, and delivering such items.

You want to see turmoil across the planet ... Allow the idiots to keep promoting higher fuel costs as a way to force people to change their energy usage habits in the United States.

We'll figure out a way to get from point A to point B and the rest of the world will starve as we continue to be slaves.

How's that for a different perspective ??

Originally Posted by amishclark

i can't resist...i fully understand the ripple effects of higher gas prices, but again you're stuck on school of economic thought and i'm on another...and you're right about ethanol and expensive food and corn. and AZ is right about changes in energy policy ending "slavery to another nation." but what is mccain suggesting (at least in part) in his platform? that we remove the import tax on bio-fuels such as ethanol! so let's think about the ripple effects of this...all of a sudden, places like mexico realize that selling us their corn for fuel is more profitable than selling their own people corn for food. there are already food riots taking place in mexico, india, etc.. we are still a "slave to another nation" for energy sources, but now our image as a nation (and our national security, imho) is threatened by taking food out of people's mouths so we can live comfortably.

what really bothers me about the "drill here" philosophy is not potential environmental damage. i see this philosophy as sort of a "god will provide" course of action...i don't know how else to say it. my personal opinion is that there has to be a line drawn in the sand. i don't know the answer to this so i'm asking. how much will it cost to up our in-country production and refining, and how long will it take before we see a significant impact in energy and fuel costs?

anyway...

[FLSTFI Dave]

Originally Posted by amishclark

what really bothers me about the "drill here" philosophy is not potential environmental damage. i see this philosophy as sort of a "god will provide" course of action...i don't know how else to say it. my personal opinion is that there has to be a line drawn in the sand. i don't know the answer to this so i'm asking. how much will it cost to up our in-country production and refining, and how long will it take before we see a significant impact in energy and fuel costs?

anyway...

there are a lot of variables in this..

Part of it depends on what areas are opened up. Coastal areas in FL that are near required infrastructuer could have crude coming out of the ground in as little as two years. These are shallow low tech equipment wells.

The OCS areas would take 3 to 4 years to get the oil into production. Wells are much deeper, and not as much available equipment not already in use, but the infrastructure is still there (pipe line and support equipment)

7500 foot of water and deeper wells would be 4 to 5 years.

Media is not telling this, becuase they say it takes five years to build the drill rig and then five to get the oil....

Fact is transocean the worlds largest drilling company, has three new drillships under construction now, and they will be inservice by late 2009. Also Pride International has three drillships that will be inservice by 2010. These ships are capable of drilling for the deepest oil depoisites found to date. This is in 12,000 feet of water with well depts of 40,000 plus feet. These are also dual activity ships that cuts well drilling time almost in half.

Sea drill aslo has three ships under construction.

All the Majors have semi-submersibale drill rigs under construction.

The catch is about five years to build refinerys. We need many more refineries.

Think about this, every one says good paying jobs are leaving the USA. They are saying the economy is bad. Just think how many new good paying jobs building refinerys would create. You have the companiens that make the materials for building, for the equipment. You also have the construction workers, and last the 1000 plus people a refinery employes. These are good paying jobs.

Also the drilling rigs create good paying jobs, lowest position is 42K a year. Do not forget a deep water rig has two work boats that tend to it every day, more good paying jobs. My rig for example has two helicopter flights four days a week, three flights one day, and one flight on the other two days. So one rig, average is 13 flights a week. More jobs created. Also some one has to make the five miles plus of drill pipe for each well, and the five miles of casing.

I have not even scratched the surface of the jobs it creates.

Heck lets say it does not lower the price at all on oil. Would you rather keep the money spent on crude and gas in the USA or send it to another country? Rather keep or make jobs here, or send them overseas too?

[AZXD]

Sarcasm ... ?

I'm begining to see the light.
8 dollars for a gallon of gas makes sense ... Stop exporting our food source to other nations unless they are willing to pay us 8 dollars for a grain of wheat.

If the proponents of alternative energy think corn as fuel is the BIG answer ... Let them have the solution they propose.

Starve the entire planet as we produce ethanol from corn.

Change the slavery tactic from oil to food ... If you can't produce a product that allows you to live ... Then DIE!

We have been a prosperous nation due to the things we produce. Most of what we produce has been shipped to overseas production ... But agricultural production is something we can't ship overseas ... So use it as our leverage point.

Is it sarcasm ? You decide!

[Etta Place]

Originally Posted by FLSTFI Dave

China is doing just that....Starting to Drill 45 miles from FL. Where we can not drill in our own back yard.....

Every heard of persuing two paths to achive a goal? Or can only one thing be focused on at a time??

Here is how I see it, While working full time to support my family, I worked to get a 4 year degree to better support my family in the future. Should I have quite supporting my family to get my degree, and then be able to support them better?

Well my senario sounds like what you want....Dont drill (support my family) work on alternative energy only (dont support family, work on degree only) then in the future have good alternative energy (support family better)

I knew a degree would help my family better in the future, but I continued working full time to support them, while I also worked for my degree. Now I am able to support them better.

That China drilling off the Florida coast story is propaganda by Cheney. It's even been retracted (miracles never cease!!).

Cheney Mistaken on China Drilling Oil in USA's Backyard
By By H. Josef Hebert, Associated Press
CNSNews.com
June 13, 2008

Washington (AP) - Vice President Dick Cheney's office acknowledged on Thursday that he was mistaken when he asserted that China, at Cuba's behest, is drilling for oil in waters 60 miles from the Florida coast.

In a speech to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, Cheney said on Wednesday that waters in the eastern Gulf of Mexico, long off limits to oil companies, should be opened to drilling because China is already there pumping oil.

"Oil is being drilled right now 60 miles off the coast of Florida," the vice president said. "We're not doing it, the Chinese are, in cooperation with the Cuban government. Even the communists have figured out that a good answer to high prices is more supply."

He cited his source as columnist George Will, who last week wrote: "Drilling is under way 60 miles off Florida. The drilling is being done by China, in cooperation with Cuba, which is drilling closer to South Florida than U.S. companies are."

Congressional Democrats pounced on the vice president's remarks and were backed up by independent energy experts, who called the assertion hyperbole at best and a falsehood at worst.

Cheney's office said in a statement to The Associated Press that the vice president had erred.

"It is our understanding that, although Cuba has leased out exploration blocks 60 miles off the coast of southern Florida, which is closer than American firms are allowed to operate in that area, no Chinese firm is drilling there," according to the statement.

Cuba clearly is interested in developing its deep-water oil resources, estimated at more than 5 billion barrel, including areas within 60 miles of Key West, Fla., energy experts said.

Jorge Pinon, a senior energy fellow at the University of Miami specializing in Latin America, said Cuba has awarded offshore oil leases, or concessionary blocs, in its offshore waters to six oil companies -- none of them Chinese -- and soon may announce an agreement with Brazil's state oil company, Petrobras.

"But no one is currently drilling in any of those concessions," said Pinon in a telephone interview. Pinon, who supports drilling in the eastern Gulf and believes it can be done without hurting the environment, said China is being raised as an unnecessary "boogeyman" by drilling proponents.

"There is no actual drilling yet. ... There is exploration," said Johanna Mendelson-Forman, a senior fellow on energy and Latin America at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

She said China's oil company, Sinopac, has conducted exploratory drilling on a lease on land in western Cuba, but is not involved in the offshore development.

But talk of China drilling in waters within 50 miles to 60 miles of Key West has been a common theme among Republicans. They are clamoring to open more of the country's offshore waters to energy development, including the eastern Gulf where drilling is strongly opposed by Florida officials.

"China, thanks to a lease issued by Cuba, is drilling for oil just 50 miles from Florida's coast," Rep. George Radanovich, R-Calif., recently wrote in The Modesto Bee in California, arguing for opening waters that have been off limits for 25 years to U.S. companies.

Radanovich's office said the congressman was in transit and not immediately available Thursday.

House Republican leader John Boehner of Ohio, calling for more domestic oil production, declared, "right at this moment some 60 miles or less off the coast of Key West, Fla., China has the green light to drill for oil."

"Even China recognizes that oil and natural gas is readily available off our shores, thanks to Fidel Castro," complained Rep. Roy Blunt of Missouri, a leader of a GOP energy task force.

Rep. Edward Markey, D-Mass., accused the Republicans of pushing oil development by "scaring up the ghosts of communism and xenophobia" and "perpetuating a myth that China is drilling off the coast of Florida."

Cheney Mistaken on China Drilling Oil in USA's Backyard -- 06/13/2008


Did you ever notice that White House propaganda, particularly coming from Cheney, often seems to affect the oil business? Whether it's the war in Iraq lies to the current propaganda that drilling in the U.S. will bring current gas prices down, there's a connection to oil companies. Cheney, et al. said that Iraq's oil would pay for the war and reconstruction. Iraq's oil production is just now getting to pre-invasion levels. And, prices have gone up, not down. I would be surprised that with the Bush administration's record, that even if we started drilling in the U.S. tomorrow, prices would continue to climb.

[Etta Place]

Originally Posted by FLSTFI Dave

40 percent of our Crude comes from the USA
Canada is next
Saudi after canada...

but it does freguantly swap between Mexico and Saudi as to who is number 3 and number 4.

So you are advocating sending more jobs to Saudi and Mexico to get the oil we need until Alternatives are viable?

So you are for sending more money to Saudi and Mexico, rather than keeping it in the USA?

So you are for burning lots of fuel to ship crude to the usa, on Forgien ships with forgien crews?

Crude drilled in the USA goes by pipeline....

Lets see your agains Nuke....

Are you like Kennedy, no wind farms near me either?

I understand Kennedy's point. That's why I said what I did about California property owners not wanting oil drilling off the coast.

If Mexico has more oil jobs, maybe it will keep their people home!!

If Mexican and Saudi oil is easier and cheaper to access, then why scar and pollute the U.S. coastline and wildnerness areas?

[Etta Place]

Originally Posted by Palmguy

Are you opposed to nuclear power?

Yes because of the waste factor. Where do you put it? Where do the French put it - send it to some poor African nation?

I'm for conservation. Let's try that first. The Bush administration has been opposed to conservation of energy on principle. The government should be offering incentives for conservation.

[Etta Place]

Originally Posted by JeffXD

Top 10 reasons to blame Democrats for soaring gasoline prices.

I know this has been beaten to death, but here at the top 10 instances of Democrat resistance to allowing the US to become less dependent on foreign oil.

American Thinker: Top 10 reasons to blame Democrats for soaring gasoline prices

That whole list is full of lies.

[AZXD]

I'm for conservation as well.

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of high prices. It will impact the farmer, who will raise prices as a counter to the increased costs of production. He will be forced to cut back on production so he can better manage what is affordable and the rest of the planet can FU<K OFF AND DIE if they can't afford one of the few remaining things we produce in this country.
Some of the land that is conserved can be allowed to revert back to the rich forest or marsh land that it once was ... NOW THAT"S CONSERVATION that any environmentalist should see as good.

High fuel costs = High food costs
We need to blackmail the world & let those who can't afford the extortion DIE.

My conscious will be clear because I am not promoting the internal extortion of our population. I am now promoting the external extortion of the planet as we utilize the leverage point we have available in this country.

We'll need to pay for the new infrastructure requirements of wind, solar, and everything else ... Including drilling for oil and building refineries .... So charge the countries we sell food to, a fair price ... Give the small farmer a chance to get out from under government subsidized farming. A lot of people view this as wrong anyway .... So keep our food prices as they are and charge the difference to the rest of the world.

The countries we import oil from have a great pricing model for crude oil & we should use it as a pricing model for food.

Originally Posted by Etta Place

Yes because of the waste factor. Where do you put it? Where do the French put it - send it to some poor African nation?

I'm for conservation. Let's try that first. The Bush administration has been opposed to conservation of energy on principle. The government should be offering incentives for conservation.

[Etta Place]

Originally Posted by AZXD

I'm for conservation as well.

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of high prices. It will impact the farmer, who will raise prices as a counter to the increased costs of production. He will be forced to cut back on production so he can better manage what is affordable and the rest of the planet can FU<K OFF AND DIE if they can't afford one of the few remaining things we produce in this country.
Some of the land that is conserved can be allowed to revert back to the rich forest or marsh land that it once was ... NOW THAT"S CONSERVATION that any environmentalist should see as good.

High fuel costs = High food costs
We need to blackmail the world & let those who can't afford the extortion DIE.

My conscious will be clear because I am not promoting the internal extortion of our population. I am now promoting the external extortion of the planet as we utilize the leverage point we have available in this country.

We'll need to pay for the new infrastructure requirements of wind, solar, and everything else ... Including drilling for oil and building refineries .... So charge the countries we sell food to, a fair price ... Give the small farmer a chance to get out from under government subsidized farming. A lot of people view this as wrong anyway .... So keep our food prices as they are and charge the difference to the rest of the world.

The countries we import oil from have a great pricing model for crude oil & we should use it as a pricing model for food.

People will just buy food from other countries - like Brazil, who will tear down more rainforests for farm land.

[AZXD]

Now you're getting it.
We reduce our oil consumption and other people raise there use.
We reduce our food exports and other nations raise there food production.

Tell me I am wrong!

But I like how you are so quick to refute the food logic by saying

Originally Posted by Etta Place

People will just buy food from other countries - like Brazil, who will tear down more rainforests for farm land.

I also like how you are not opposed to starving the planet to save ourselves from the evil use of oil

GOOD!
Let's move forward with the idea.
FU<K them .... They can get their food elsewhere and we can convert all of our excess food into fuel

A global population reduction would do this planet good!!
I'm glad we are in agreement.