Drilling For Answers on Obama's Claims

[amishclark]

umm...ok.

let's go back to that "econ 101" class everyone thinks everyone else needs to take. let's use what we should have learned to review statements quoted by AZ...claim 1 is hard to argue with, save for the fact that increasing production and decreasing price does not address the real problems of consumption and efficiency. yes, increased supply will decrease cost if demand is held constant...but demand is going up! can we increase supply faster than demand? my guess is no...econ 101. claims 2 and 3 are pretty much the same, and can be lumped into one; the response of the author is ridiculous, however...of course one-off vehicles and home-brew conversions are expensive. remember the concept of "economies of scale"? it's really fascinating. this concept states that, through mass-production and standardization of process economic gains can be made...which means costs and (hopefully) prices go down. claim 4 is probably true, but concepts of deep economy counteract the difficulties presented...produce locally, buy locally, and act responsibly...corporate fleets can (and eventually will) be more fuel-efficient, but a government mandate will help drive this. sure it will cost more upfront, but imho it's worth it.

trik396...name calling isn't nice. come with something significant, perhaps a well-formed argument contending the points i am making. please, tell me what i am ignorant about. i'm open-minded and willing to learn.

[AZXD]

If we dealt with a resource that we could control ... Yes!
However we purchase an item that is sold on an international market. If we stopped all crude oil purchases ... World demand would continue to rise. Therefore reduced comsumption is not a viable answer.

Does it make sense to cripple our economy as we look for and develop alternatives that reduce and ultimately eliminate out dependency ???
We as a nation are to blame for not developing solutions in years gone by ... But the idea of intentionally hurting this nation because of past errors is pretty stupid if the hurt can be reduced from extremely painful to bearable.

Originally Posted by Frenchy

If supply and demand is one of the causes of price, is consumption the key?

[trik396]

I asked specific questions about the use of hydrogen and you didn't respond.

once again showing you are the FOOL.

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by AZXD

If we dealt with a resource that we could control ... Yes!
However we purchase an item that is sold on an international market. If we stopped all crude oil purchases ... World demand would continue to rise. Therefore reduced comsumption is not a viable answer.

Does it make sense to cripple our economy as we look for and develop alternatives that reduce and ultimately eliminate out dependency ???
We as a nation are to blame for not developing solutions in years gone by ... But the idea of intentionally hurting this nation because of past errors is pretty stupid if the hurt can be reduced from extremely painful to bearable.

Your point is well taken, and I agree. Consumption would have an impact, but to what degree base on world demand.

[trik396]

Even if America drastically cut usage, there are several BILLION people from India and China that are thirsting for oil for the first time. Quell that demand. Yeah right.

And you started with the name calling first, FOOL.

[FLSTFI Dave]

Originally Posted by trik396

Dave, This guy is a moron and doesn't even know how to have a respectful discussion. So I will give him back what he gives. Sometimes ya gotta fight fire with fire.
Saw on another post about diesel truck forums you visit. Which one(s)?

Diesel Place - Duramax Diesel Discussion Forums

DieselTowingResource.com

Are the main two I visit

The TDR is a good one for Dodge Cummins trucks

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by trik396

Even if America drastically cut usage, there are several BILLION people from India and China that are thirsting for oil for the first time. Quell that demand. Yeah right.

And you started with the name calling first, FOOL.

I hope you are not refering to me, trik?

[FLSTFI Dave]

Originally Posted by amishclark

umm...ok.

let's go back to that "econ 101" class everyone thinks everyone else needs to take. .

Ok explain this...

Also note that Democratic Sen. Chuck Schumer uses the magic math to insist that another million barrels a day from Saudi Arabia would bring the price down by $25 a barrel and 62 cents a gallon, while the exact same amount coming from ANWR would lower prices by a penny.

The above is a good example of why the Democrat don't drill argument does not hold water.

[trik396]

Originally Posted by Frenchy

I hope you are not refering to me, trik?

No Frenchy.... and I shouldn't be using words like that... but I just got off a 12hour shift and I'm damn tired. Time to turn off the 'puter and get some zzz.

[amishclark]

Originally Posted by trik396

I asked specific questions about the use of hydrogen and you didn't respond.

once again showing you are the FOOL.

again with the name calling...you want an answer? hydrogen is not an energy source. is it a vehicle for energy STORAGE. so the cost of hydrogen is linked to two things...how much does the energy used to create it cost (very similar to refining oil, we can't just "pump" hydrogen and use it)? and, how much does the infrastructure used to store the hydrogen cost? the nice thing about hydrogen is that it can be produced and stored anywhere as long as there is infrastructure and a power source, and that it doesn't degrade or leech energy. i think you also asked who will pay for this, and i don't have an answer for you that i think you'll like...but there's a great book called "the hydrogen economy" which i highly recommend. it talks about ideas such as decentralized power generation, energy sharing (similar to information sharing we have seen with the development of the intrawebz) and the like.

i think i'm going to bow out of these sort of discussion from now on...we're going to have to agree to disagree.